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Monday, August 4, 2008

Psalm 14:1b

Ray Comfort's favorite verse:

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."


That's the verse Ray probably quotes more often than any other, so often that he has it on a bumper sticker which recently caused a bit of a stink. The trouble is, that's not the whole verse. That's just the bit that people like Ray like to quote.

Here's the rest of the verse:

They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.


A nice bit of name-calling, don't you think? But this, I think, is the reason why we never see the rest of that verse: it's demonstrably false, and thus disproves inerrancy!

Because obviously there are atheists who do good. In fact, the prison population in the United States has a much, much lower percentage of atheists than does the general population. There are atheists who have served, and are serving, in the US Armed Forces with honor and distinction. There are atheists who run charities. And so on.

Ray might object that the verse is referring to no atheist being perfectly morally good -- never having lied, stolen, loved God less than maximally, etc. But that excuse won't fly, because that would make everyone in the world an atheist. (In the New International Version, a footnote to the word "fool" indiciates that the original Hebrew refers to one who is morally deficient.) I've already discussed the possibility that Ray himself is an atheist, but would Ray himself admit to that? Probably not.

So the next time Ray, or someone else, quotes Psalm 14:1a to you, simply smile and ask him to quote the rest of the verse to you. See if he or she can do it with a straight face.

24 comments:

  1. Hi guys, sorry to interrupt a post with this, but I'm back....sort of...
    no blog or anything at the moment...just a name change, so yeah...I'm here. Mostly.

    ~The blogger formerly known as "_____".

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  2. (waves merrily at NT) Welcome back!

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  3. Glad to see you're back, even if it's just "sort of".

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  4. I could see Ray saying somehthing along the lines of 'Your deeds are vile and not good in the eyes of God', but that's not what the verse says. I have no doubt he'd try to twist it that way, though.

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  5. NT,
    You darn near gave me a heart attack! I thought that little rant I went on a few days ago may have been the reason you bailed, but Wee let me know it was not.

    Hope all is well!

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  6. Dale, it takes more than that to run me off ! Better luck next time ;)

    I just realized I have chosen a screen name (NT) that is also the abbreviation for New Testament. Shit.

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  7. Welcome back, and damn you for getting me excited at seeing ten comments to my post! ;)

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  8. They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, there is none who does good. Psalm 14:1
    Silent Dave
    What the above verse means is exactly what it says. All men are evil there is no one who does good. Atheists are not good people,and there are no atheists who do good, sorry. Your good works are like filthy rugs before God. The only way any person can becaome a good person is to have the righteousness of God imputed to them when they become saved. Dave that is why somebody had to die for the sins of humanity,(Jesus) because we are all corrupt.

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  9. "Dave that is why somebody had to die for the sins of humanity,(Jesus) because we are all corrupt."

    This is the kind of thinking that makes me feel so sorry for theists.

    Imagine hating yourself this much and thinking so poorly of yourself that you require divine salvation.

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  10. maragon,

    How do you(or any other atheist/non-believer) account for
    "evil" in the world?

    What sort of "solution" would you give to solve this "problem"?

    You do acknowledge the fact that mankind is evil don't you.

    I am honestly not trying to be sarcastic or rude. I would just like honest, respectable answers.

    Thanks in advance!

    In Christian Love,
    Brittany

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  11. Dave, I'm really sorry about that !!! I feel like I hijacked your post. But, it's a really good post !

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  12. Filthy rugs ??? Ok already I'll steam clean. Yeesh.

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  13. Hi NT!
    I'm so happy you're back. My week can officially start now...

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  14. Awww, thank you Kirsti !

    :::steam cleaning for Jebus::::

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  15. Hi Brittany,

    I will always be glad to give honest and respectable answers when you ask honest and respectable questions. =)

    However, I would first like to clarify that atheism is not a system of belief like theism traditionally is. What this means is that although I can(and will) answer your questions, these answers are purely my opinions and may or may not hold true for other atheists. In other words, I can only answer for myself because they only thing I have in common with other atheists is a lack of a belief in a deity.

    Unfortunately, I cannot properly answer your questions until you give me your definition of what you believe 'evil' is. There are so many definitions attached to this concept that I would hate to address the wrong one. After you clarify, I will be glad to answer your questions.

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  16. Jean said:

    Silent Dave
    What the above verse means is exactly what it says. All men are evil there is no one who does good. Atheists are not good people,and there are no atheists who do good, sorry. Your good works are like filthy rugs before God.


    So you're saying that all of humans' good works are negligible in the cosmic sense. But it logically follows from that that all of our evil works are likewise negligible. You can't have it both ways -- you can't say that our good is negligible but our evil is infinite, or even significant. Thus, God would lack a moral jutification to punish us for anything.

    Also, even if all men are indeed evil in the infinite sense (and have no or negligible good), that doesn't explain why Psalm 14:1 singles out atheists.

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  17. From John MacArthur's study Bible:
    The word fool in the Bible carries moral rather than intellectual meaning.

    <MacArthur>
    This is a wisdom poem, nearly identical to Psalm 53. It contains profound deliberations on human depravity. (v 1-6)

    The first dirge on depravity addresses the Universality of Depravity (v 1-3)

    The "alls" and the "nones" of these lines make indictments universally applicable.

    Paul included these indictments in Romans 3:10-12.
    </MacArthur>

    <Me>
    Even though I grew up in a christian home and always knew in my head there was a God who created me I can be included in the universality of this Psalm because I said in my heart that there was no God. This was evidenced my my immoral behavior.
    </Me>

    BTW, I like your blog but the whole 'I bet Ray would say...' is kind of annoying, why not just ask him?

    Thanks for giving me something to study tonight.

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  18. Hi Maragon,

    Richard Gunther, in one of his many Christian essays, has clearly defined "evil".
    http://christianessays.freeservers.com/evil.htm

    It's quite long, but it's worth the read.

    Thanks for responding politely.
    Appreciated very much.

    In Christian Love,
    Brittany

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  19. Mark,

    Even though I grew up in a christian home and always knew in my head there was a God who created me I can be included in the universality of this Psalm because I said in my heart that there was no God. This was evidenced my my immoral behavior.

    I suppose that's a valid interpretation of Psalm 14:1, but it's not one shared by most Christians, particularly Ray Comfort. They interpret the verse to mean that atheists are fools. My point was, they are pretty quiet about the rest of the story.

    BTW, I like your blog but the whole 'I bet Ray would say...' is kind of annoying, why not just ask him?

    It's been established that Ray reads this blog; I'm not an admin here, but I imagine that if he wants to participate and speak for himself, he's welcome to do so.

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  20. Hi Brittany,

    I'm heading out of town today to attend a concert, but I will read and reply to your essay and questions as soon as I possibly can.

    If this post gets pushed down too far, I'll simply make another. =)

    I apologize for the wait, thanks for the link.

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Unlike Ray we don't censor our comments, so as long as it's on topic and not spam, fire away.

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