I no longer comment over at Ray's (and haven't in 32 days now) and it's not that I'm cutting the fundy nut cases any slack, it's just that things like this are so completely beyond stupid that I wonder sometimes if it is even worth wasting time on:
Rebecca in TX in reply to Matt Dillahunty :
Matt,
You have missed some very important characteristics of God. The most important being a perfect, holy, just judge. He does not have the pampering kind of love for us that turns a blind eye from our crimes and lets justice go unsatisfied. And by the way the crimes you have committed against God are the highest worst crimes that can be committed when it is the perfect, holy, creator of the universe that you are committing them against. They are not little offences. They are all out rebellion against God. Your characterization is one of a human parent toward his child. That is simply not the God of the Bible and you are definitely not a child in need of a little discipline. You are an unrepentant sinner, doomed to God's judgment, and in need of a savior. You need one who is willing to step into the courtroom of your judgment and pay the fine for your crimes so that you don't have to. All you have to do Matt is repent, turn from your sins and trust in what Jesus did for you on the cross. In your place He paid the price for those high crimes against God. Your sins will be forgiven and you will be given everlasting life. What an incredibly kind offer given to one who does not deserve it.
All you have to do? Like it's just so simple !! I wonder if Rebecca realizes that 'all she has to do' is to read the Qur’an, repent to Allah and realize Islam is the one true religion and all of her 'high crimes against god' will just magically disappear? I'll bet not because that would would seem absurd to her, as does the line of reasoning that all an atheist has to do is to just believe in Jeebus and just like magic, all is well. To me she may as well be saying 'All you have to do is pray to my magic donkey and realize you have offended his donkeyness and you'll be forgiven of all your sins against the Holy Ass'. Absurdness is absurdness, no matter how you state it.
Then there's this gem from H132:
Matt d.
You blaspheme God by claiming to have been a Christian and then turning to atheism. What a wicked lie!
You were never a Christain any more than your spiritual brother Hitler was a christian. Both of you are children of your father, the devil...
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44
A born-again Christian is a new creation; new creations cannot become unnew.
The Gosepl is Good News and is good news for you. Though you've trampled it under foot, I want you to be SAVED because your time is running out.
"For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth He devise means, that His banished be not expelled from Him." (2 Sam. 2:14)
Come back through repentance and faith.
We Christians love you and want you back bud...
First, H132 accuses Matt of lying that he was ever a Christian, then says that 'we want ya back bud'. If he were lying about having ever been a Christian how could he go back to something he never was? I'm not even going there on the Hitler reference.
In a nutshell, pardon the pun, the stupidity is just too damn painful over there and it never ends. I think if we were dealing with people that had an ounce of reasoning in the first place, it would be different, but I think they are beyond being able to have an independent thought.
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I've been arguing with people like this for 30 years. In all that time, one thing is proven true again and again:
ReplyDeleteYou cannot reason somebody out of something they were never reasoned into in the first place.
I rarely comment on Ray's blog because there is no chance of ever getting through to these people. The most pathetic to Matt on this thread was by Ethan:
ReplyDelete"Can you show one example in all the Bible of the condemnation of children?
PS. You'll have to read the Bible, which is obviously something you've never done. Sure you pick out isolated verses from other atheist sites that help you hate God, but try reading it the way it was meant to be read."
From what I've gathered from watching The Atheist Experience, Matt is tremendously well-versed in the Bible. I also find it funny that any Christian would accuse someone of picking isolated verses. That's all they ever seem to do.
Well stated captain.
ReplyDeleteMagical nonmagic,
I saw these posts too. My brain still hurts. Ray is gaining newer non-thinkers over there. Now all of them talking about dawkins and now hitckens (or whatever), and alike. I could not care less if dawkins or hitckens say this or that, by the way. These fundie guys really think we have a religion over here. But really, they think that by insulting some famous atheists they will get to us, like they were some kinda priests. I wonder if they ever noticed that I said I find dawkins' books boring to read?
G.E.
Mj,
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Matt is very well versed in the bible. He was on his way to being a pastor when he deconverted. Obviously they will tell themselves anything in order to hide from the truth that people who really were once Christians really do wake up and walk away from it.
I dunno...I kinda thought they made some good points.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I was joking on my last comment.
ReplyDeleteVera is doing my head in. Apparently Muslims are torturing Christians in China. WTF???
ReplyDeleteHow very true nonmagic.
ReplyDeleteI still haven't got over her 'neat' idea that the infanticide of the Midianite children was actually an act of mercy. According to her, all the children would have already been sexually abused, so God was saving them from psychological trauma as adults.
John,
ReplyDeleteThe 'neat' killing of the Midianite children is Vera's trademark. She will never live that down as long as she is on the net.
I just read her ideas about Muslims in China torturing Christians. More classic Vera!
Sometimes I think she would fit right in with the Fred Phelps clan.
I agree that H132 is one of the more thinking impaired posters on Rays site. His latest rant also leads me to believe that he would be no fun at a party.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that Ethan was trying to get at was that even though god ordered the murder of the little children, according to the bible, they weren't condemned to hell, but were brought up into heavenly glory, which as any fundamentalist knows, is far better than this crummy life we have on earth.
Jesus loves the little children,,
the bible tells me so...
I wonder what fetuses do in Heaven?
ReplyDeleteThey're filling all the fetal positions.
ReplyDeletecaptain howdy said...
ReplyDelete"You cannot reason somebody out of something they were never reasoned into in the first place."
Truer words were never spoken.
I'm stealing that phrase from you.
Vera is totally deluded and convinced that her utterances are devinely inspired because she is so righteous.
ReplyDeleteI am convinced that she is mentally ill. This is one of those cases where I would love to see what goes on in her personal life.
And those poor kids of hers.....
They accuse us of having no meaning in our lives but what meaning could life possibly have if atrocities here on earth are erased by transporting the victim to heaven? Run a child through with a sword because God commanded it? No, problem! God will make it all better!
ReplyDeleteAbout children going to hell- the bible doesn't state children go to hell but it also doesn't say children go to heaven.
ReplyDeleteI have heard people on Ray's say either they don't know for sure or everyone is a sinner including children and all sinners go to hell. That is a far cry from children don't go to hell.
What was Vera's "neat" remark?
ReplyDeleteNM,
ReplyDeleteYou made me feel better to.
goeff, here's Vera's "neat" idea:
ReplyDeleteverandoug said...
So, the children of the Midianites deserved to die or be enslaved because of the actions of their ancestors?
You guys have asked the question about God killing off many races of people in the Bible and how this was brutal and unfair. With passion unmatched, I heard the heart of Richard Dawkins speak the words he spoke against God while reading those first pages of his book, The God Delusion.
I believe I know why God killed those peoples and why He killed their women and children, but I couldn't find the analogy or the words to explain it..... until God showed me this evening how I can show you His character in the matter.
Yesterday, I was driving a number of teens home from swimming. The chatter was about this Australian man that had kidnapped his own daughter and kept her in the basement of his home for 24 years! He fathered 7 children by her. The daughter and three of these children were living in this windowless horror. If you are one of the few that hasn't heard this story, it is all over the Internet.
There aren't words to tell you how much that man's actions distressed my daughter. It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole trying to resolve how someone could be so cruel, so heartless, so beyond compression in evil. Today, she just wanted to go out I think to prove to herself that she isn't confined to our house. So we went out shopping. I think she cried for them last night. She verbally told me how much she appreciated my husband's speaking to countless thousands of people about sin.
It's like you want to take someone like that and string them up the nearest tree. Don't you? At the very least, you want to see some serious justice. Anyone with any sense of compassion is incensed by the actions of this man and rightfully so. To hurt people that heinously for the sake of sex is reprehensible. What kind of idiot forces little children to grow up for 19 years in a dungeon without daylight? It is unconscionable. The man appears to be normal by his neighbors. His wife is supposedly clueless. Yet he is such a man.
Do we all agree on that?
Now, this is what God showed me today. What if there were a city of 30,000 men just like that one man all treating the women and children as cruelly? What if the women were completely psychologically damaged to the point of being unable to function just as this daughter? What kind of people put innocent babies on burning statues? Could the women nurture their children the way we would? Probably not. The Israelites were so dumb at times that they would take on the actions of these people and it would infect their nation like cancer. The world would have destroyed itself before God could redeem them.
Therefore, would it be so horrible to put them out of their misery for mercy's sake? See Jesus came to heal the brokenhearted. That was one of the things He specifically said He came to do.
We know that Lazarus is a poor man that is also treated unmercifully but is allowed into this sectioned off part of hell. I believe that these women and children were allowed to be there too.
I happened to be acquainted with a family that went through something similar but not this horrific and to be honest, the people, by God's grace, have recovered. However, just like my daughter, there is no way to resolve the atrocity. But imagine these children who have grown up in a dungeon. What kind of life can they possibly lead that has any sense of normalcy? Think about it. Now, I do believe in the power of God to redeem them. Please do not misunderstand me. However, chances are that they are in a hospital that doesn't believe in faith in the power of God.
So can you see that it was God's mercy that killed these women and children and not some love for bloodshed? They were taken to a better place. Those who were cruel to them got exactly what they deserved. The killing ended the cruel behavior of a civilization gone mad that was infecting the world with their madness.
I thought that was so neat.
Vera
(PS. I sent this to the Dawkins atheists who think I am the detestable one. So predictable.... :-)
May 3, 2008 6:17 AM
BTW, the "Australian" referred to was the Austrian that made news earlier this year (geography is not one of Vera's stronger subjects)
ReplyDeleteMaybe I should start saying that all allegedly converted atheists (from atheism to, usually, Christianity) were never true atheists. They lied (cause that's what Christians like Ray do, right?). At least some of these people are consistent. When you're this bat shit crazy, there's no point in letting in a modicum of reality.
ReplyDeleteI get it, Vera and her God consider what was done in the bible to innocents a mercy killing (you mean like Terry Schiavo), which i thought Christians do not tolerate due to sanctity of human life. But this merciful soul, Vera, proposes that we kill victims of reprehensible crimes out of mercy. I read something about her daughter, now where are the child Services on this one.
ReplyDeleteDale,
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad. Let me know anytime you are feeling down and I'll just pop out with that statement and lift your spirits. ;)
Igor,
ReplyDeleteBy her logic I suppose we should just go over to Darfur and kill everyone since they would be better off. I mean it would send them back to god and wouldn't that be neat?
or not cause they haven't accepted Jesus into their hearts before death. But hey, never let logic get in the way of doing what you think is right.
ReplyDeleteVera..."Yesterday, I was driving a number of teens home from swimming."
ReplyDeleteYikes! Vera driving a car full of kids home thinking about how neat it was that God smited children.
These kids should take their chances hitch-hiking in the future.