"I never said we were unreasoning animals, I said we were animals. If you deny that we are then you need to go take a basic science course." F. Dust
This reveals why believers in the theory of evolution have the convictions of religious zealots. It also reveals why those who don’t believe as they do are seen as ignorant knuckle-draggers. If evolution is true, then man is simply an animal. That means he is free to embark on his sexual prowls, because it is nothing but a basic instinct to do so. It’s his procreative nature to fornicate, and therefore not a sin. For the atheist, this is a hill to die on.As one evolutionist says, "We are humans, yes, we are apes too. What you seem to ignore is that classifications need levels of categories. For instance, Chimps are chimps, just like humans are humans, and we both are apes (higher order of classification). The ape equation, we being animals too, is a natural conclusion, nothing to do with being 'sinners.'" (Italics added).Evolution swings open a door to do whatever the evolutionist pleases, as long as what he does is within the bounds of a civil law he is ever expanding to accommodate his sinful desires. If man is an animal he can even justify homosexual and bestiality, because “other” animals do it. To him, evolution is a license to act like an animal, and he does. The dictionary says that an animal is "any such living thing other than a human being." The word human means "lowly" or "frail," and the word being means that we are aware of our existence. We are unique among God’s creation in that we are not only morally responsible, but we are aware that we are going to die. There is a basic instinct within all sane human beings that wants to live. So, let me concede slightly and let you call it “an animal instinct.” Now, obey your basic instinct--turn from your sins, trust in Jesus Christ, and God will make you fit to survive on the Day of Judgment.
Posted by Ray Comfort on 7/26/2008 11:30:00 AM 2 comments
Well, now that Ray realizes he knows nothing of science, he goes on the attack. Kind of like an animal. ;)
Becoming a Christian is basic instinct? Since when? Was it an instinct before Jesus came down? Is it in our genes? If so, why are there tons of other Gods?
"God will make us fit to survive on the Day of Judgement"? Boring. That's not even a good shot at attempting to be funny. Even your jokes are used up.
What are your thoughts on this?
UPDATE----
Epic Fail of the Day
JOSHUA S BLACK said...
Oh, the venom that will displayed...on someone else's blogs!!! You know, the atheist strike could not have come at a better time.
Joshua, you're right. Maybe some Rayniacs will post "GREAT POST RAY". And, "ATHEISTS ARE SO DUMB! I R TEH SMART JOHN 3:16 RAY YOU ARE DA BEST! WE CHRISTIANS ARE SO MUCH MORE RASHUNAL BECUZ WE BLEEVE IN A GAWD BY FAITH! TOTAL EVIDENCE! EVOLUTION HAS NO PROOF!"
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There's something I don't understand. Why would Joshua S Black make a comment like that. When I'm told by a proponent of an idea that there are dissenters who have comments (even if -- perhaps especially if -- they say the dissenters are venemous or crazy) I look for those comments, so that I may come to my own conclusion. I would expect him to present the illusion that there is no dissent.
ReplyDeleteNever mind the fact that this is a false dichotomy that he's creating. Why can't we be apes and still be unique? I'd still reckon that we are.
ReplyDeleteIf god wanted to make us special why is our DNA, instincts, etc. so similar to other animals and just happens to follow the pattern predicted by evolution? Oh that's right god is "testing our faith"! The entirety of biology says we are animals, if you don't like it too bad. Science looks for truth not what we would like to be true. What really pisses me off is how Ray compared homosexuality to bestiality. At least he didn't compare it to pedophilia like other fundies, but I'm sure that's the type of stuff he says to his fundie friends. Why do I get the feeling that if this was 100 years ago Ray would be saying something like "evolution and thinking we are animals will lead to more interracial marriages because that's what animals do, black bunnies have sex with white bunnies all the time".
ReplyDeleteAnd that's the danger of Ray's type of fundaMENTALism.
ReplyDeleteYou see, if you're religious, but keep it to yourself, it's alright. Not looking down on people, not judging them, and not trying to convert them...Well, by all means believe what you want. But, people like Ray are the reason we have trouble progressing as a society.
I'm confused. Does Ray deny we are animals?
ReplyDeleteMilo,
ReplyDeleteYeah he just denied something excepted and relied upon by the entire field of biology. I guess we are like special unique alien like creatures, with super powers, made by god to live in a foreign world.
Erikloza and Josh Black, of course are two of the most prolific commenters over "there."
ReplyDeleteThey are strictly Apologists.
The christians themselves came up with the word aplologist. Seems funny to me that they wold choose that because why do they need to aplogize for their irrational belief system?
When we see an "apologist," we see a person who, because of fear of being shown they are wrong, absolutely denies the validity of ANY science, or even simple observations that contradict their one and only book.
As someone noted, even if they could prove evolution is false, then they have to fight the battle with astronomers, geologists, etc that show the universe to be very old. If they would succed at that they would then need toset about to prove that miracles actually happen, and on top of that, they have to come up with some actual evidence of the existence of God.
None of that is going to happen, and they know it.
That is why mainstream America is made up of self described moderate and progressive christians. They recognize these kooks as dangerous.
Just think of it: There is a national identity change towards christian fundamentalism. Only fundie operatives can get elected to congress. The fundies become a majority. The constitution is abolished and biblical law is instituted. The worst of nightmares.
Rest assured. It's not gonna happen. Just as the founding fathers did not use the bible to write our founding document, no one wants biblical law in effect. Not even the fundies.
I remember as a kid there were a couple people in our town who would be on the street corners on Friday night preaching to no one in particular. Of course they were mentally ill. Ray Comfort is mentally ill. Astrologists are mentally ill. Fortune tellers are mentally ill. And all the people that believe them are mentally ill,
EXCEPT for the ones that are just sucking the money out of you and most of them are doing just that.
Joel Olsteen likes the money, but his concious bothered him so bad about teaching fundamentalism so bad that he has set it aside, to the point that he does not even have a Cross in his church. At least he is trying to be honest.
Dale,
ReplyDeletethat's an interesting point about Joel Olsteen. I think he's just a self help guy who knows the bible is bullshit, but uses it's more promising verses to deliver his self help message. I'm sure he also realizes Jesus is a great marketing tool for his audience. He has too much of a conscience to guilt trip people and give them the harsh "fire and brimstone" parts of he bible.
I was just thinking about this and had to come back to it.
ReplyDeleteBasically, Ray's whole point is: I don't like the implications of the facts, so therefore they are not facts.
Hmmm... Joel Osteen seems to deliver a secular self help message if you take Jesus out of the picture.
ReplyDeleteMoney is an issue, and it becomes obvious with people like Ted Haggard. He got into a scandal, cleared his name, got kicked out of his own church, and is studying to become a secular psychologist.
He lost his number 1 method of money making, and decided to get a real job.
Many CHRISTians don't like to accept Joel Osteen as a true preacher, just because his message is a lot of "fluff", and too close to actually being of help. And too little Jesus.
Oh, and his followers are "false converts".
Lance,
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what Ray is doing. Hey, I don't like the fact that our troops are still in Iraq, but that doesn't make it less true.
People who cannot deal with reality, turn to a crutch. Sometimes, that crutch is drug abuse. Other times, religion.
The only thing that worries me about Joel is he pushes the "god is a magical fairy" thing too much. He encourages people to pray for everything, even better parking spaces and all this does is make people more superstitious and irrational.
ReplyDelete"(Ted Haggard) is studying to become a secular psychologist."
No freaking way!!
This is off topic, but speaking of Iraq I was thinking recently if Bush, like most fundies, takes the book of Revelations seriously you think he might be trying to bring back Jeebus?? I mean I think there is suppose to be major war in the middle east before Jesus comes back.
Hmmm, you're saying that fundies will stoop so low as to try to make the "bible prophecies" come true, no matter what?
ReplyDeleteYes. That sounds true. Many christians don't worry about global warming because Jesus is coming.
Many prophecies were "fulfilled" because people expected them to be.
slightly off topic...
While listening to the Non-Prophets podcast, I heard something interesting. Satan has the power to thwart Gods plans. I mean, if Satan decided to not bring up the "anti-christ", then according to many Christians, doesn't that mess everything up?
All Satan has to do is sit back.
This is off topic, but speaking of Iraq I was thinking recently if Bush, like most fundies, takes the book of Revelations seriously you think he might be trying to bring back Jeebus?? I mean I think there is suppose to be major war in the middle east before Jesus comes back.
ReplyDeleteI've definitely heard people voice this concern before. I certainly hope it's not true - but it sure seems like it might be some times!
All Satan has to do is sit back.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but then the Book of Revelation wouldn't be such a trippy read.
Yup, John must have been smoking some god given weed when he wrote revelations.
ReplyDeleteRS,
Yeah god really set up this world for his own enjoyment of drama and destruction. I also love the non-prophets, too bad they don't make podcasts more often.
Lets hope Bush is too stupid to actually be able to read through the whole book of Revelations.
ReplyDeleteLance,
ReplyDeleteRevelations is good. I admit. It's like an acid trip gone wrong.
TSS,
Non-Prophets [alongside the Atheist Experience] is my favorite podcast. I just wish Jeff Dee would return. The podcast is biweekly, which means they're scheduled for a new episode today. Atheist Experience tomorrow.
And I doubt Bush "readificated" through the "bibble".
I just now saw this. I think it absolutely hysterical that I have spent an entire wonderful day with my husband and all Ray had done is spend Saturday making himself look like an idiot (yet again!) trying to weasel around 2 simple sentences I made weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteI love this part :
"The dictionary says that an animal is "any such living thing other than a human being."
He can't even find a dictionary that isn't full of fail !
*sigh* Poor guy.
To: The Skeptical Sorcerer
ReplyDeleteYou said,
"I'm sure he also realizes Jesus is a great marketing tool for his audience."
Bingo! Thanks!
They all fall into one category, that of the "Priestcraft."
I just read Ray's post to my husband. He was bug eyed at the many, many displays of logical fallacies on Ray's part, but then he asks me this:
ReplyDeleteHUsband:'Well, if we aren't animals then what the hell do they think we are??"
Me: "Well, I guess since they believe in an ancient myth that says we were made in the image of god, then I guess we are all just little gods.'
Both: "Hahahahaha!"
See, Ray, that's what it looks like when you use no logic whatsoever and attempt to think your way through ...well, pretty much anything. You just end up looking stupid in front of everyone and only a person as equally as stupid as yourself would agree with you.
I am rushing so I haven't read the comments-my apologies if I repeated this:
ReplyDelete" If evolution is true, then man is simply an animal. That means he is free to embark on his sexual prowls, because it is nothing but a basic instinct to do so. It’s his procreative nature to fornicate, and therefore not a sin. For the atheist, this is a hill to die on."
Whatever our origins, whether or not we evolved or not, this says nothing about how we should behave. This is a complete non sequitur...you can't say that if evolution is a fact, we will therefore have to debauch ourselves whenever we feel the urge. It is as if Ray is saying, "Let's just pretend evolution is fake, so that we can act civil to one another". Forget about what is true; what can be determined from the evidence. Stupid.
Dale:
ReplyDeleteFACEPALM Sorry, but they are using an older meaning of apology not in as much of common use any more. Similarly you can find Plato's "Apology." Here, an apology is a type explanation for a belief, not an admission that something is wrong. Now, we can certainly say that they are unsuccessful in explaining anything. But it is not a good idea to use the creationists' own technique of pretending a word was used with a more common meaning when the actual meaning as used is not hard to find.
Clos,
ReplyDelete"I am rushing so I haven't read the comments-my apologies if I repeated this:"
Rushing off to another dancing disco in your back yard, huh?
Dale,
The priestcraft thing is an excellent and easy way to make money unfortunately. Especially when your "customers" are already believers.
On the prospect of Ted Haggard hanging out his shingle as a psychologist or therapist of any kind:
ReplyDeleteIf getting therapy from him was the only option, I'd seriously consider suicide. Honestly, just the sight of the man's face makes my flesh crawl, and that was true even before he got his ass into the headlines.
Wait....WHAT???!!?? I just now caught this....Ted Haggard is studying to be a SECULAR PSYCHOLOGIST??? :::falls out of chair and blacks out::::
ReplyDelete"Clos,
ReplyDelete"I am rushing so I haven't read the comments-my apologies if I repeated this:"
Rushing off to another dancing disco in your back yard, huh?"
SS,
LOL! I love to get my guy friends together on the weekends, set up the dance floor and sweat to the oldies! I don't know where Dede got the whole "disco" thing. We listen to music and play cornhole and bocci ball.
SS..."This is off topic, but speaking of Iraq I was thinking recently if Bush, like most fundies, takes the book of Revelations seriously you think he might be trying to bring back Jeebus?? I mean I think there is suppose to be major war in the middle east before Jesus comes back"
ReplyDeleteYeah, this has worried a lot of people over the past several years. It's not just Bush but the neo-con fundies behind the scenes. Rumsfield and Wolfiwitz are devout conserative fundie loons and warhawks to boot. Of course there both gone now but they are plenty more in this country we need to keep an eye on. And it's not just Christian extremist, but extremist Jews and Muslims as well, but I'm sure everybody knows this already.
I asked about global warming over at Ray's a while ago. I more-or-less asked is it a man-made probelm we should be concerned about or just part of the 'The Fall'. I never got an answer, but I'm still really curious.
How do you deal with people whose whole life is about death??? Some (Shiver) have even stated they long for it???
nafa,
ReplyDeleteThat's the scary thing, it's not just Bush. Another radical fundie smarter than Bush could do even more damage, like figure Revelations out and nuke Israel. Then you add in all the fundies from other religions and realize there's alot of potential crazy that influences political decisions. What you said about fundies longing for death is all too true. It's a belief perfect for forming mass suicides. Many of the people over at Ray's have talked about how they would gladly die before they denounced their faith. IMO that's one step away from being a suicide bomber.
SS,
ReplyDeleteYup, it's not beyond the scope of reality that we could see fundie Christian sucide bobers if the enviorment here ever became ripe for that.
I was under the foolish belief that it's best to live and let live. Respect everyone's beliefs. As in, this is America everyone has the right to there own crazy views. But I see how wrong I was. Fundieism is very dangerous and needs to be stamped out.
"bobers" = 'bombers". ;)
ReplyDelete