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Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Two Days Left -- What's Our Next Move?

Someone suggested that we continue the strike indefinitely, per Ray's request, except for one assigned person posting in each of Ray's threads to politely inform other atheists who might be tempted to post that there's a strike in progress and that their participation is encouraged.

As of right now, that would be my preferred course of action. What do you guys think?


  1. A few weeks back I would have disagreed, but I reckon it would be humorous for him to have a website called "Atheist Central" and yet no atheist presence.

    I didn't really post that much over there anyway. All I used to do was post on my blog about how stupid he was.

  2. I'm really not going to return to regular posting over there.
    It's not worth it.

  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. Agreed.

    Let's have a little fun group-composing our "sticky" post, shall we? -- I envision several drafts incorporating all the blasphemy we can cram in, then we clean it up after we've all had a good laugh.

    Oh, and the Designated Poster should be one of the Raytractors admins.

  5. I think we have a really great community here and I'm glad to see it's growing and that it is diverse ( Hi Rob!). I have no intention of posting over there again. Being here is much more fun and I love that we aren't censored.

    So I agree with Silent Dave.

  6. Also, I've been counting comments (I know, I know, the concept of "getting a real life" eludes me) and if I'm right, total comments are down about twenty percent from June. I don't know about total hits, though; my Google Analytics-fu is feeble, alas.

  7. I see no reason to help Ray deceive others by allowing him the use of our ideas and posts to garner support for himself.

  8. *chuckling*
    I'm not even an avowed member of any strike, I just got bored at Ray's and found this blog better, both in community and in handling.
    In practice, there's not a strike visible. At least three or four atheists, plus two dissenting theists, are posting regularly anyway.
    The post count average has visibly receded at Ray's, but that just demonstrates that fewer people handle Ray and his bunch just as well.
    I recommend looking at the threads for good discussions, and leaving the threads to the people who are best at handling the argument.
    No need to go 'atheist army', that just reinforces prejudice. Takes less individual time and serves the lurkers just as well.
    Have you noticed that almost all of the lurkers who popped out after the 'strike' started are gone again after steve j. and others stayed persistently?

  9. Well, since you asked what I think, I shall tell you.

    As I said in an earlier comment, I am totally retired from commenting on Ray's blog. I still cruise by once in a while and when I see some inanity, I'll throw in a reality check, but to argue with that mindset is an exercise in futility, along with the likes of Vera.

    In conclusion, you guys can do whatever pleases yourselves and I consider it an honor to be part of this eclectic group of free-thinkers that I have landed in!

    I am fairly convinced that you all will move on to seek out and speak out against idealogical groups far more influential than Ray Fucking Comfort.

    If I were to propose a future venture, I'd pick out some other fundy group and rip in to them. Ray is basically inefectual and his sphere of influence amounts to the most deluded segment of Christianity, and thus the least open to rational ideas.

    What I am trying to say is that since we have such an esteemed group, let's not waste it on Ray Fucking Comfort. Let's go after some bigger game.

    Just my thoughts. Respectfully submitted,


  10. dale,
    I tend to agree. However, if one finds a way to open eyes at Ray's, the vale of that insight could be huge. It might have already happened, we just haven't heard of the person. We can't be sure if it takes a crowbar or a long time of tickling for each individual. Maybe I'm naive, but I think every mind is malleable if you get the right approach.

  11. why use your mind, talent and time to enrich the content of his blog and not this one?

    he gains from your input in many ways, especially financially. don't just hand it over to him.

  12. 'value' not 'vale', typosorry.

  13. If you go to my blog, you'll see a post linking to Debunking Atheists blog. I'm sure many of you have been there.

    I've never seen anybody as dumb as Ray.

  14. toomanytribbles,
    does he really gain anything from us? Of course he might and probably will quotemine our posts for his next whatever. The thing is, some people will buy no matter what he publishes. And those people who are his regulars will see all the stuff they'd seen before, so the same stuff in book form won't have any impact. Everyone new to his shtick needs to be shown 'better arguments live!', or else they'll be totally defenseless and just grow in numbers. I think he profits from donations or quasi-donational purchases much more than from our interjections. Mature, restrained comments from people like us help to alleviate his assertions and the bogeyman image he's trying to paint of UnTrue Christians(tm) and Morally Corrupt(tm) people. For his ends, he'd just as well make up atheists to write about.

  15. There's only five Atheists who have posted on that last post on Ray's blog.

    Actually, I didn't know there was a strike until I read this post. I would have protested against the strike LONG ago.

    Look, I faked a relationship with Christ up until some time in Jr. High. And even after that, I didn't take my relationship seriously until College, when I met an Atheist in my fraternity named Carl. He was a real douche to me, and spent most of our time in that three years trying to shatter my faith because he thought I'd be an awesome guy to hang out with if he did. That's his own words, btw.

    Carl made me think. The Atheist made my relationship with Christ better, because the atheist had a brain and showed me what one looked like. Granted, it's not as big as he thinks it is, but whatever.

    The point is, some one has to get people to think. It IS possible. If it weren't, I'd not be on this bog. I'd be on Ray's, being an idiot.

  16. I myself don't plan on posting over there again, if I can find the strength. Sometimes the shit like the monkey-pig is difficult to resist, or like when he totally removed that recent post that he had posted before. Of course, we're all free, white and 21, as my mother used to say (yes, she was somewhat racist). We can do what we want. I wouldn't shun anyone for posting there. Might burn ya at the stake, though. HERETICS!!!

  17. i think his blog is a marketing tool for his little money-making setup. most of his posts are just slapped together nonsense, probably with all of two minutes thought, designed to get people going.

    i can understand adding a scant few very well-written and thought-provoking comments for the purposes that you describe, but in a way that quickly brings people to this blog.

    the fence-sitters and actual thinkers will click.

  18. not to mention he advertisesis crap on his blog.

  19. Rob Penn,

    You are fighting a losing battle here with that type of rhetoric.

    You need to learn that if you want to speak in those terms you have to preach to the choir, so to speak, then motivate them to get buy ins from their sphere of influence. The business model for religionists is well known.

    Your siily beliefs will find no fertile ground on this premesis. You need to move on, young man.

  20. So which one of you guys has been hacking Ray's site? And what IS his password? Could it be Boscoe?

  21. BOSCOE! I'd like to see someone break into the site just to do it and show Ray. I'd say the password is something like "damn, I am such a moron", or "keep sending me your money, folks".

  22. Adressing the Object of this Post:

    What is our next Move(?,) as proposed by Silent Dave? Please don't become distracted. He has a most salient point.

    Thank you, Dave. If there were ever to be a "grass roots" assemblage, this would be very representitive of what it would be like!

  23. I wasn't really helping. Posting to get my perverted and macabre kicks (as a cat toys with mice) & to be Terry's punching bag. What can I say, I like the guy.

    I saw the pics, and I thought to myself, DAMN, there is someone out there crazier than me, how did THAT happen?!?!?!

    When him and I get banned, it will be poetic justice. But I don't think the tectonics plates shunting around in his fractured psyche could withstand the PAWNige of being rejected by his cock messiahs, Kirk (especially) and Ray. The PTSD will creep up again and he will become as a dark shadow, stalking and killing everyone who ever posted on the blog since it's inception (like LISA NOWAK, driving 72 hrs with adult diapers).

    Be warned.

  24. @toomanytribbles--

    why use your mind, talent and time to enrich the content of his blog and not this one?

    he gains from your input in many ways, especially financially. don't just hand it over to him.


    Exactly right. We're actually helping Ray to develop training manuals for his army of mouth-breathers.

    Ideally, we should monitor Ray's sales pitch and post detailed, referenced counter-arguments out here on the World Wide Toob.

  25. dale
    I am fairly convinced that you all will move on to seek out and speak out against idealogical groups far more influential than Ray Fucking Comfort.

    If I were to propose a future venture, I'd pick out some other fundy group and rip in to them. Ray is basically inefectual and his sphere of influence amounts to the most deluded segment of Christianity, and thus the least open to rational ideas.

    What I am trying to say is that since we have such an esteemed group, let's not waste it on Ray Fucking Comfort. Let's go after some bigger game.

    Sounds like a plan to me, though occasionally we could look in on ray.

    Though who? Debunking Atheists, (the most likely choice since some people from here are already mixing it up damned good over there), Atheism is Dead, Culture Watch or other?

    I should warn you guys that the censorship on Culture Watch is very heavy.

    See Bill Muehlenberg's site and Culture Watch Censorship.

    Come to think of it, I and a friend of mine are still waiting for our posts to appear on "Atheism is Dead".

    If you really want to mix it up, Robert Turkel's site.

    This is the super arrogant apologist I mentioned in a previous post.

    Whatever, it's up to you guys; I just wander around aimlessly myself!

  26. aI don't see that an "offical" decision is necessary or even possible. Anybody can post wherever she wants. Personally, I plan on staying away, however tempting it is to go over there and post comments on such tsunamis of stupid like the recent pigmonkey bit.

    Also, it gives me glee for Raymondo to have an Atheist Central with almost no atheists present.

    Any volunteers for the job of Raytractor Commentator?

  27. @ dale:

    Your opinion has been noted.

    I suppose I have more of a dog in the fight than you. I mean, they're my brothers and sisters in Christ, so I'd like to see that happen.

    Do what ya want. I would like to see people go challenge their brains.

  28. I think I'm in the camp that involves;

    - not regularly posting on Ray's blog and certainly not engaging in pointless arguments with block-headed fundies
    - posting short, factual corrections when Ray lies blatantly but not rising to his bait
    - destroying his 'arguments' on THIS blog
    - putting up a sticky to welcome recovering Raniacs

    Ok, I'm basically just stealing the best bits from everyone else's ideas but you get the picture. We need to provide a place where people can discuss this topic at ease, but that doesn't feed into the persecution complex of the RaptureReady crowd or alienate lurkers.

    Also, Rob, you are certainly welcome here.

    Oh, and mudskipper, you're a very naughty boy!

  29. Strike called off or not I doubt I'll ever post on Asskiss Central again.
    I like the idea of people occasionally posting there to set things straight.
    I don't see it has to be a "designated" person.
    If the quality of this site remains high, there's more reward posting here. It'll be self-policing

  30. Guys,

    I do not know if I will be posting regularly at Ray's after this. I am still thinking. For me, having this single blog among all of us helped give our own unobstructed thinking to go into conversations beautifully. I think Ray is not the only idiot out there. I want to be able to call things by their name, and we have this blog to do it. I would rather not have as many theads appearing, but what the hell, it still works.

    I know I am not saying anything, but getting out of Ray's allowed me to visit other things, such as stephen's law blog. It allowed me to notice (thanks Clos), the "debunking atheists" blog, which is even worse than Ray's, yet helped me find other "sources" of crappy arguments used by Ray and the like (like science against atheism). I think that we should post at Ray's, otherwise we leave alone lots of poor people who need the proper thinking to see the shit of Ray's arguments, but we should not do it as before, just well thought out arguments, and get here for experimenting, discussing, and widening our minds, and call things by their names. We could also note if there is a creacionist blog gaining notoriety and post against them too, and pay them a visit with the best constructed of our arguments.

    Now, we also need to be able to be spontaneous, and our raytractors blog is the best way to sharpen our minds for the debating that we will need against more professional shit.

    For instance, there will be other Syes. I think we should just learn what these types think, and point it and leave, instead of constantly give them ammunition. For instance, there at Stephen's, somebody had answered beutifully to Sye, but then added a full paragraph of explanations. Sye uses those to focus and mock and forget about the nice rebuttal. You see? We need to learn to restrain once we have gotten to the point.

    Lots to think. Perhaps my main point is: feel free to post at Ray's, nut let us not forget our realm where the ideas flow unobstructed by idiotic censorship.


  31. @ Felix:

    I'm not married, but I have been courting a beautiful lady for about a year and two months. We talk about what marriage would be like a lot.

    Yes, she knows. Her first response was "how do I help?" :)

    I don't take the traditional view of romance that the church takes, actually. I take what I like to call the "Biblical" view of romance.

    It may very well have been a coincidence that your wife simply appeared one day by coincidence. I dunno. ^_^

  32. I'm all in for debunking the debunker of Atheists GE.
    Seriously, he's next.

  33. Honestly, I'm enjoying this blog too much to even feel the need to return to Ray's. Also, I'm having a hard enough of a time keeping up with this one! I'm going to be sans computer for the next few days, so I'm really going to get behind!

  34. @rob penn--

    We have seen evidence that there are thinking Christians out there such as yourself that have little patience with Ray's horseshit.

    Ray's theology depends on science being wrong about a lot of stuff that has been pretty conclusively established, such as evolution. To say that Christianity cannot coexist with evolution is to immediately invalidate the entire Christian religion, just as it would be were Ray to say that Christianity cannot coexist alongside the theory that the earth goes round the sun. This should horrify any thinking Christian.

    Those people who crowd around Ray's blog trying to out-amen! each other are sheep who are just grazing where they were told to.

  35. I plan on posting there only under the condition that Sye shows up again. And he will, and I'll be waiting with bated breath.

  36. rob,
    that's great, she sounds like a good match.
    I baited my wife with pizza ;). It was the way I used cutlery instead of tearing it to shreds with my fingers.
    No, really, that was it, no kidding.
    Asked her out to see a movie, and it went smooth from there.
    'Our' movie is Men In Black II, not the ideal choice, but that's how it turned out ;) .

  37. I just want to press my nose against the aquarium glass and watch these strange little creatures do their thing.

    When we are hitting Ray's blog, the whole thing becomes flame wars and trolls...utterly useless.

    But we have a nice community here as Flinging Dust and others have said. Let's use the Raytractors as our forum.

  38. @ Felix:

    My lady and I started hanging out as friends while I was being single. I decided that I needed some time away from dating for a while, so I was going to give myself about a year.

    And then, she showed up at our campus ministry the first week of classes, and I said "This is going to suck more than I thought."

    Well, I stayed true, didn't flirt and kept the relationship completely friendly, and then gave up on that about a year later. Our campus ministry was on a mission trip to Arizona, and we were taking a day to see the Grand Canyon.

    And I flirted shamelessly.

    It's a good thing that big old canyon was there, too, because I don't have many skills to impress her with. Especially not use of cutlery.

  39. I say whatever happens, keep The Raytractors strong. Atheist Central is going to the dogs...monkey pigs...whatever.

  40. Rob,
    If you want to relate your lovey dovey campus ministry bullshit around here, go ahead.

    Speaking for myself, I think you as far out as Ray Comfort.

    Are you trying to claim that this innocent betrothel to your girl friend proves you are a christian, or something?

    Just what the fuck are you trying to say? It's better to be direct.

  41. Rob,
    Rather than regale us with your superhuman ability to completely ignore your sexual urges, why don't you just come clean here. ?

    It makes no difference to me if you want to suppress your sexuality. GO AHEAD! You are a dipshit.

  42. dale,
    come on. I was just having a friendly dialogue with rob. If he met a nice girl on a ministry trip, that's good for him. There's nothing more to it. He said nothing about this 'making him a good Christian' or anything. Do you really think he's throwing some bullshit just to get you angry? A ministry is a group of people. The Grand Canyon is a romantic place, I've been there. Dale, you're really starting to sound like you have something you need to cope with. Get over it, please.

  43. Dale:

    Are you consciously trying to turn into Terry Burton?

  44. Felix and Rufus,

    Thanks for your advice. Acknowledged.

  45. Dale,

    Rob didn't say anything about his story proving anything about his Christianity. I think you are being WAY too rough on Rob. No, I realize you didn't ask what I thought, but there it is anyway. I'm pretty direct about how I feel.

  46. Felix,
    You can have all the "friendly dialogue" you want to. It neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg. Whatever you say to Rob is rather inconsequential to me.

    It will merely take you longer to recognize him for the phoney and the fraud that he is.


  47. FD,

    You are going to have to do better than that if you want to alter my opinion.

    If you want to equate me with Terry Burton, then your credibility with me is shot in the ass, as they say, and I am sorry for your poor choice of analogies.

    I came in here saying that people who believe in miracles, etc deserve ridicule and scorn and I am not going to change my opinion because you think Rob is "nice."

  48. Ok, dale. Then what makes you think that he's a phoney and fraud? You could really shorten our voyage by giving us details. I'm personally not aware of any incriminating facts or statements.

  49. Dale,

    You need to back up and READ. I never said anything about you being like Terry Burton.

    Not everyone who believes in such things deserves ridicule and scorn. There are some theists that are really great people. I have no reason to believe that Rob isn't one of them.

    I'm really not concerned with how much credibility I have with you.

  50. And by the way, where the hell did I say I was trying to alter your opinion of anybody?

  51. Sorry, FD, It was Rufus that equated me to Terry Burton. And I'm not happy about it.

    Rufus is rather unpolished.

  52. I never posted over there too much, so take my comments for what they're worth,but I would humbly suggest the following:

    1. Posting polite, well thought out factual corrections on science issues in the vein of what steven j is currently doing. (I am very impressed by this gentleman). I think the most positive thing we can hope for over there is to reach the lurker crowd who may still retain some level of rational thinking- the regulars are clearly beyond hope.

    2. Avoid getting dragged into the standard pissing match format (as hard as it may be) I nthink that this would reinforce the reasonable, factual nature of the science based posts to the no-posting readers. Getting into arguments lowers us to the raytards level. Of course the occcasional devastatingly witty riposte is always appropriate- most of then sail over the rayniacs' heads anyway.

    3. I personally would steer clear of the theological side of things, as I don't really have any interest in them. However, it is my impression that most of these discussions end up as apparent draws since all these arguments are subjective, and not much gets accomplished. I also thinks it bolsters our credibility to be able to count Christians like Rob Penn and a recent poster at Ray's who goes by "kippastraphe" on our side

    4. Essentially refrain from commenting on Ray personally and his so-called ministry in general. I think acknowledging that shit in any way gives it more attention that it deserves.

    5. Totally ignore Terry.

    Anyway, my 1.4 cents worth. Whatever happens, I hope this blog remains the focus of everyone's attention.

  53. dale,
    reading your post to flinging - from my pov, it's a significant difference in ridiculing certain beliefs and ridiculing the person. Rob was talking about some of his personal experiences. He was not talking about miracles in this thread, or yelling trollish scripture stuff at us. You jumped in on a dialogue at a point where rob was responding to other posts.
    What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to criticize specific statements, or do you just want to bully anyone who happens to have supernatural beliefs regardless of what they're saying? Calling someone phoney and fraud is not an argument. It's your choice if you want to 'hover' over rob until he says something you think worthy of ridicule, and my opinion is that this was the wrong moment, and unwarranted.

  54. Felix, I really couldn't agree more. That was very well stated.

  55. You know, it amazes me. It really does. This blog is open to theists as well as atheists and we finally get one who isn't screaming random bible nonsense and he gets treated like a jerk. That's just great. Atheists don't like it when theists treat us this way and I didn't think I would see it happen here that simply because someone is a theist they would be treated like shit.

    I'm so disgusted with this that I'm going to bed.

  56. Felix,

    I am taking your advisement under consideration.

    FD, Same.

  57. dale,
    don't get me wrong. I'm no admin and I'm in no position to advise you on what you write generally.
    I think this stuff is getting under all our skins, and we all need to get more sleep instead of monitoring posts 24/7.
    high five sexy time now?

  58. felix said...
    high five sexy time now?

    Only if Ter Ter is approves.

  59. Is approves?

    My spelleen is horrabull.

  60. Dale:

    I asked if you were consciously trying to turn into Terry Burton.Unfortunately, you keep providing the evidence of it.


    I'm more than unpolished. I can be a rough, shitkicking, hillbilly motherfucker. ;-)

  61. ranting,
    you drunk? just asking politely, 'cause I'm kinda heavily redwined now.
    WOW! I'm actually having a revelation this moment! Catholics need to have much more red wine at mass! The world be such a cool place!
    Tell the muslims about it!

    you're a real hillbilly? Nice to meet you.
    couldn't think of anything clever to say XD

  62. I swear to drunk I'm not Gawd.

  63. This comment has been removed by the author.

  64. FWIW--

    I agree with FD and Felix in the matter of dale vs. rob penn.

    Treating Rob the way Dale is simply reinforces every negative stereotype Christians have of us.

    Our homepage welcomes theists. If we don't mean it, we should take it down.

  65. Rob,

    You finally gave in to your libido at the Grand Canyon?
    I'm biting my lip.

  66. @ dale:

    Are you trying to claim that this innocent betrothel to your girl friend proves you are a christian, or something?

    Just what the fuck are you trying to say? It's better to be direct.

    We aren't "betrothed." We're talking about it.

    I'm not trying to say anything about myself with that story. Felix told me about how he and his wife got together, because he thought it was a special moment worth sharing. I told him how I and my Girlfriend got together, because he shared such a special moment with me and I wanted to return in kind.

    end of.

    Rather than regale us with your superhuman ability to completely ignore your sexual urges, why don't you just come clean here. ?

    It makes no difference to me if you want to suppress your sexuality. GO AHEAD! You are a dipshit.

    Your opinion has been heard, understood, and respected.

    So, as long as we're talking about coming clean here, let's both drop the fake conversation, get to the real conversation, and come clean.

    I've spoken with you (or, at least some "dale") on Ray's blog many times. You had no animosity towards me there. You even complimented me on one or two occasions on my rational approach to the Bible.

    What's changed? Have I done something to you? Have I said something that offended you?

  67. @ Craig:

    Wow. That's the second time I've been brought to a point of inability to respond on this blog.

    It's amazing how much fun can be had here! ^_^

    No, I didn't give in to my libido. I gave in to my desire to flirt.

    I was going on a whole year of not dating so that I could get to know myself and God better before I got another g/f. I am rather flirtatious by nature, so I had to really reign that in while I wasn't dating to avoid leading on some poor woman.

    I decided at the Grand Canyon that Amanda was going to be my girlfriend. That's all.

    I'm aware that you were making a funny, but I need to be very clear on that. ^_^

  68. marko99,

    Wow, are you good or what! Most of this is what I had in mind but could not express clearly. Nicely put together. Thanks!



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