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Friday, July 25, 2008

The way to argue with an evolution denier

Over at Dan's blog, "Debunking Atheists", Dan feels like disproving evolution will somehow make his beliefs in Jebus true. Has anyone else noticed this oddity? I am sick of demonstrating that evolution is correct, I have argued for several years with people of all levels of intelligence and concluded that it isn't even worth it. Just ask them this:


I really don't feel like explaining evolution to you, others already have for the nth time. What I want to pose is this: even if evolution were unfounded, debunked, etc...how does that make the jesus story true? Obviously you are trying to debunk science because it threatens your faith...but even if evolution is false..doesn't make Christianity true. If you really want to demonstrate that we are wrong, provide evidence that would justify your claim...you haven't done this.


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Wow. I read the post. Incredible. It sounds like something a 6 year old evangelist might say.
    Actually, it sounds like what every evangelist says. Lee Strobel, Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind, AIG, DI... All of them. They all say the same shit. And Christians believe it.
    The theory of evolution not a science? This, even to a layman like me is insulting [I can only imagine its affect on you, Mr. Microbiolist. ;)]

    Devalues sciences like chemistry, physics...and, Biology? Biology, really?

    So, if something is complex, it must have a creator? And, if there is a creator, it's the Christian God?

    Mathematically Impossible. Basic probability tells you that the odds of a blob of primordial ooze morphing into a man, regardless of how much time has passed, are so remote that mathematicians regard it as impossible.


    Evolution is a religion.

    Epic Fail.


    You know, it's funny. "Evolutionists" are actually able to look at a mistake, say "that's incorrect", and push it out. It's only the critics of evolution that bring dead puppies to life [you know, because most of them have a zombie obsession].
    And he ties this in with Hitler. Okay Ben Stein.

  3. Hum,

    I enjoyed zilch's rebuttal. Quite nice. Yet, dan just ignored the whole thing to say that zilch copied from talk origins.

    I was starting to think this dan might be a bit honest. After all, he has admitted a few mistakes. On that side he is way better than Ray.

    Still, he has to fall into not doing his homework, but just do the same fallacious arguments Ray does... from AiG!

    Well, also, at least he is becoming a bit less boring. Trying finally a bit of "debunking." Of course now i see why he had nothing before, must be a little sad not to have anything to say unless you copy from previous fallaciates.


  4. I just realised something whilst making a comment over at Debunking Atheists:

    What are we doing???

    Didn't we say we were going to have a strike? Surely all we have done is reject Ray and have found another anti-atheist blog to focus our efforts. I reckon we should extend the strike to all anti-atheist blogs.

    There is no reason why a unpopular unknown guy should get all the attention for all his lies.

  5. adrian,
    bad idea. Not commenting on any of the mendacious propaganda blogs theists churn out means they win. Remember the 12th century? That's what it looks like when atheists and scientists don't comment.
    Look at it this way: would these people reach their target audience of uneducated, clouded-in-sermons minds if they weren't criticized? They sure would, and their audience wouldn't even be aware there was another standpoint. I've read a lot of accounts from former believers who were stuck with a faith that didn't satisfy the critical part of their minds, but they didn't leave because they simply had no exposure to better arguments and real explanations.
    The Ray-strike is more an experiment than a strike. We want to see what happens if the Rayniacs are left to their own devices for a while, if they get bored, if they actually can raise the stupidity level, and how Ray reacts. So far, we're seeing some intriguing results - the provocation level of Ray's posts is rising, and his sheep are trying to fill the sudden intelligence vacuum with Bible verses and self-congratulatory exchanges. My speculative prediction is that there will be some schismatic events, but I can't say if that will happen after just two weeks or if such a process takes months. If other people's ideas about a financial crisis are correct, which I personally think is too unevidential to put a bet on, we should see some sort of propaganda explosion. The Rayniacs are content with handing out tracts, but is Ray himself, or will there be a revelation of financial interest aimed at profit?

  6. I just wanna say that I love the 2nd label of this blog post. Heh.

  7. Some of the posters at rdnet tried a similar but more universal tactic with a fundy. They said, pretend that nobody had ever thought of evolution. Nobody knows why life develops or how it does. Now that evolution is completely out of the way, explain how your religion or any other explains it, in terms of causes, effects, processes, and what methods to use to find that out.
    Needless to say, the guy couldn't even get started and left after a few posts.

  8. Muffin,

    Thanks, I'm having fun with that whole JTFC thing!


    That reminds me of what Sam Harris said about us somehow collectively losing all our hardearned knowledge....at what point would we have to remind ourselves that Jesus was born of a virgin in order to rebuild our societies?

  9. clos,
    Sam's idea is excellent. I see it as a cornerstone of philosophy - re-evaluate concepts by going back to point zero and build from there. It demonstrates the value of Occam's razor.

  10. UPDATE: I am not the only one that holds this viewpoint. Many highly accredited Scientists believe in a Creator instead of evolution. Here is a little handy list: Creationists holding DOCTORATES IN SCIENCE

    I briefly skimmed this article called: Some Real Scientists Reject Evolution which has good referenced facts in it.

    Thanks to that article (Some Real Scientists Reject Evolution) I found out about A book that was written and is available online to read if you choose. It's called The Evolution Deceit


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