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Monday, September 29, 2008

Wrong again

Comments like this from fundies are another reason why I, even when I wasn't banned, never posted over at AC after the strike started.

Check this out:

"Leah said...

Mr. Robert Madwell said "Of course, that could be another lie! Foolish atheists! Why can't we stop lying? Oh yeah, that's because that's what we do!"

Dear Mr. Madwell, please understand that you CAN'T stop lying unless you have Jesus Christ. You are a slave to sin, if you "tried" to stop lying you would not be able to. Please, give it a try, don't lie, you can see how lying is bad, how it hurts people but you cannot stop doing it because sin(lying) makes you it's slave. Freedom is not doing what you want to do, but freedom in Chirst is having the power to do what you should. Read Romans 7 and understand that you are a slave to sin, you DO NOT CONTROL your sins, but your sins control and direct you. I pray that you will see that you need Christ, because once you have made HIM your LORD and Savior HE gives you the power to be free from your sin so that you don't have to serve them, you can serve Christ! "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:2"
September 28, 2008 8:17 PM

Uh....no. I can not even remember the last lie I told. Not even the last white lie I told. Ever since I was a young kid, due to some very negative experiences I had in my home life, I have made it a policy not to lie. I don't have to try not do it, I just don't do it. It's not who I am or who I want to be. And I'm still an atheist.

I realize that it's easier to believe someone is damned, and all the other horrid things fundies think about atheists, if you believe erroneous, demonizing things such as this, but please THINK before you type. Anyone with any common sense would know that the claim made in the above comment is just ignorant bunk.


  1. The notion that going around telling the truth all the time is a good thing is ridiculous. It's not actually desirable. We all 'lie' or fail to tell the truth sometimes, and we do so for good reasons.

    "I hope you liked your food?"
    "Not really. It was dry and unpalateble."

    I quite often 'lie' to my baby daughter in her best interests; if she asks for more food and I don't think she should have anymore, I will hide or move a packet.

  2. They *don't* think before they type. This is part of the reason I was (and still am) trying to make the case that they communicate by emoting rather than by conveying information.

    Yeah, that comment angered me too.

  3. Baldy,

    Instead of lying, I think of something to say that isn't a lie.

    If my mother asked if I liked something she had cooked and spent a lot of time on, but it was awful, instead of hurting her feelings with 'No, Ma, that tasted like shit', I'd instead find something positive to say about it. Maybe it was a pie, so I'd say 'The crust was really crunchy' or whatever.

    I'm not saying I've never lied, I'm saying I make it a policy not to and it works quite well for me.

  4. Sure; me too. My point is that we all sway away from the absolute truth from time to time and so what?

    Does lightning hit us? Nope. Do we go to a fictional lake of fire? Um, no.

    Is the person we 'lied' (whether actively or passively) to worse off? Er, now you mention it...

    Don't get me wrong, telling the truth is generally the moral and ethical way to behave, but it isn't always.

  5. It just showed to me the bigotry of that particular person's mindset. Yes, I do know that a lot of them think this also.

  6. The other annoying thing is the caps lock when it comes to words involving their deity.

    Do they think we will suddenly fall down and worship if they type LORD, HE, and HIM in all caps? Do they think it pleases their deity more if they do that?

    Ugh, and the other thing was this:

    "Read Romans 7 and understand that you are a slave to sin, you DO NOT CONTROL your sins, but your sins control and direct you."

    Yeesh, are these people so without any internal locus of control that without a belief in their deity they would have no impulse control whatsoever?? Psychologically and sociologically, I find that interesting and pathetic at the same time.

  7. NM,

    I listen to the Atheist Experience out of Austin, Tx every week (you should also if you don't already). You would be amazed at how many theists back themselves into that corner and say that they would rape and kill if it wasn't for god. I always love Matt's (the host) response, I will pray you stay a christian then.

  8. Rocky,

    I listen to the podcasts when I'm working out. It's scary that that's that only thing keeping them from going on some kind of rampage.

    I hope one day that humans in general are better than that.

  9. I think if they were totally honest with themselves, they don't really believe that. It is just that can be the only logical conclusion from their statement that christianity is the only provider of morality. Like I said before they are backed into the corner where they have to say that or admit that is a morality besides what their ancient text says. Of course, some circumvent this argument by saying god writes morality on everyone's heart. I have seen a human heart and there is nothing written on it. :) Joking aside, this is just an unfalsifiable statement, even when you can show morality is a product of evolution, ie Michael Shermer's book "The Science of Good and Evil". I am sure you can see the circular argument being created here. If they won't accept the evidence for evolution then they won't accept the fact that morality is an evolved trait, so thus "God did it!"

    From what I have been reading, it seems best to not directly confront these beliefs, as you will trigger the backfire effect. Instead you have to approach things with more of the idea you are not trying to shatter their belief, instead you want them to look up information and study on their own. There is a good article on this in last weeks e-Skeptic, I can email it to you if you didn't get it. The other thing is the person has to be willing to learn and question things on their own, if they aren't they won't.

  10. When my wife walks into the room with a new pair of slacks on and ask's, "Honey, do these slacks make my butt look big," I'm so like goin, "No way cupcake!"

  11. nonmagic said...

    Do they think we will suddenly fall down and worship if they type LORD, HE, and HIM in all caps? Do they think it pleases their deity more if they do that?

    I'm sure it's the latter. They're not taking any chances. I can see god shaking his fist at them saying, "I'm a proper noun damn it".

    My fav is L RD. He's so awesome I can't type every letter. He's really going to be impressed with me.


  12. Rocky,

    I get e-Skep, but I think I missed the article you are talking about...or I deleted the e-Skep by accident...Science of Good and Evil is on the 'to read' list, but I probably won't get to it until next summer.


    The G-d thing is funny, too. But they never type J-sus or anything similar.

  13. nonmagic said...

    The G-d thing is funny, too. But they never type J-sus or anything similar.

    Isn't that a Jewish thing? I say that because a Jew wont even say the word God. I used to date a Jew is the only reason I've heard of this. He would refer to God in Hebrew.

  14. Freed, I thought it was a Jewish thing, too, but I've seen a ton of Christians doing it, also.

    I can't see you dating a Jewish guy, Cynth. The mind wanders into areas that are none of my business! :)

  15. lol at NM.

    He was difficult to say the least and had that awful beard...and the teeniest little ponytail...and bald on top...but boy could he sing!

  16. Those flakes at AC don't even get a joke. I was being sarcastic. I even told them I was being sarcastic to avoid Poe's Law. Still they took me stone cold serious. They don't even get the paranoia angle. I'll have to write about it on my blog.

    Thanx nonmagic for defending me a bit. Those fundie mentals are start to aggrevate me. They answer sarcasm but won't address how their denial of ex-christians suggest predestination (a fact that I have mentioned more than once).

    Thanks again.

    PS: Some of them are emailing me. I did invite them to. So far they're nice, but if I get some hatemail, I post it on my blog.

  17. Robert,

    I would have defended you there if I wouldn't have gotten myself banned. Irony is lost on them. There literalism meters all all stuck on full force.

    I'd love to see it if you get any hate mail.


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