Our New Home

We have a new home, come join us at WeAreSMRT (We Are Skeptical Minds & Rational Thinkers)

The Forum

Friday, September 26, 2008


From Ray's latest mind fart:

"Moses said...Like you, I don't believe in Hindu gods. I don't believe in Chinese Ancestor worship. I don't believe in Shintoism. I don't believe in the Thunder-bird or Old Man Coyote. I don't believe in Thor, Odin or Freya. Heck Ray, I don't believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa."

And I don't beleive in Hmjoyt, Fghwaq, Dnhsua, Jdused, Sodjsf, Kiggdg...

I don't understand how listing out invented human words for man made characters that you don't believe in, helps you reason away the reality of God.

Do you use the same reasoning with math? 2+2= "Oh, there's no answer, because I don’t believe the answer is 1, or 2, or 3, or 5, or Santa, or Thor..."

When you get a prescription from a doctor, do you assume that the pharmacist can pick any drug off the shelf, because there can never be just one right cure?

If you really believe that your argument is valid would you be willing to call yourself an Ahinduist Adaoist Ashintoist Athunder-birdist Aold-man-coyotist Athorist Aodinist Afreyaist Aeaster-bunnyist Asantist Atheist or is your problem really just with the One true and living God? -- Keith

Quick list of my notes for this reply:

  1. There is evidence that points to Judaism having polytheistic roots. The reference to God being known as the plural word Elohim (plural for lord) rather than the singular El (lord).
  2. Math analogies don't work well for fundies. Why must they keep doing them? 2+2 has a definite answer. So Keith's assertion is that whatever the equation of the universe is the answer is God?
  3. Scientist analogies also don't work well for the fundies. Keith is saying one drug is right for what ails you (this one is God) and the others won't do anything (every other religion). A more accurate depiction would be a pharmacy full of placebos except for one that Keith is really, really sure will cure your soul herpes.
  4. Atheist just means without belief in God/gods/supernatural. You don't need to make a statement for every supernatural thing you don't believe if they all fall under this one title.
  5. As stated many times before on Ray's blog, people who don't have a problem with the God Ray portrays, just the people who want to force the beliefs they have on others.
(P.S. This may not be totally concise; Keith's reply was a run-on non sequitur.)

(P.P.S. I copyright the term runonsequitur.)


  1. 2 + 2 = 5 for large values of 2.

  2. I am still boggled by this response to the previous garbage:

    "As for atheists, they are making a positive claim that God does not exist. That's a mighty high claim...for atheism has to prove a by it's [sic] own system that the claim is true."

    Believing that the tooth fairy does not exist, does not require me to prove that fact. [Note to tooth fairy believers: finding a dollar under your pillow does not constitute sufficient proof. There are documented cases of deceit.]

    The funniest entry in the thread though was from Mike and Liz:

    "whateverman said... Stop shunning your God-given brain, and actually use it when trying to talk(write) to people. Otherwise, you'll continue making yourself look dishonest.

    Sounds like an admission that there is a God in this statement to me."

    Hmm ... imagine that ... a Christian admitting that God exists. How bizarre!

  3. *runs off to copyright "soul Herpes"*

  4. damn! I knew I forgot something!

  5. "Hmm ... imagine that ... a Christian admitting that God exists. How bizarre!"

    Go figure. All Ray's supporters think that anyone and everyone who disagrees with Ray must, by definition, be an atheist. I'm a Christian, and last time I checked I haven't given any evidence to the contrary. Despite that glaring contradiction, my "Christianity" has continually come under question numerous times from commenters at AC. It occurs to me that they so desperately want to be right on something (anything?) that they'll jump to the most ludicrous contradictions to bear the slightest semblance of being correct.

  6. Keith totally missed the point that Ray nor anyone else at AC has given any evidence that their god character is any different than the gods listed by Moses.

  7. Side note....has anyone checked out the commenter on Ray's latest post, "all glory to god"? I dare you to click on his web page. ;-)


    I've damn well had it. Every stinking time I do my damndest to come up with an argument so far beyond absurd that no Rayniac could possibly believe it and would have to argue against it, and every damn time ONE OF THEM MAKES THE EXACT GODSDAMNABLE ARGUMENT THEMSELVES!

    There can't possibly be some sort of Poe army over there can there?! I mean honestly!


  9. That's funny, Sorcerer. I wonder if Ray or his team of moderators will notice that.

    Speaking of moderation, at least now with more people moderating you can have more back and forth over there. That is another good thing to come from NM's Photoshop talents.

  10. Oh my god.

    Skeptical Sorceror.

    Not cool.


    It's like sulfuric acid on my EYEBALLS.


    *Vomits into keyboard*

  11. On further consideration, though: That's definitely pretty darn snarky and hilarious on All Glory To God's part. I just never needed to see that...

  12. Sorry about that, I couldn't resist. I like the song on the site though, but yeah the image is hard on the eyes.

  13. Sure
    Get Pay-Pal.
    I only lurk but the enjoyment is worth a contribution.

  14. Sorry to ruin your fun, Skeptical Sorcerer, but I emailed the LW mod team about "All Glory to God's" profile. The image is hard on the eyes, yes.... but I was more of just venting some anger at the type of "Amen Ray" comments this guy does. Bye, bye sucker.

  15. I may have never clicked on that profile and web page. I have to good of a memory to be exposed to something like that. If I live to be 100 that will probably be the last image in my mind. Although nonmagic could probably have some fun with Photoshop with that one.

  16. Ornitheologist, what do you expect Living Waters to do about it?

    This is the thing that sticks in my craw, that Ray and his group seem to think they can Moderate the Internet, and telling them "Hey that guy who posted on your website OMG he also likes porn DO SOMETHING" really... bothers me.

    So the guy has porn as his web page. This likely makes him insincere. So was Rex Mundane for gods know how long. People still bought it and nobody seemed to care or whatever. But calling up Living Waters is like telling the bus driver that a passenger left a brothel - it has nothing to do with them.

    Also, that image was pretty nasty, but it's no Goat.se.

  17. 1)Did you check any Hebrew Lexicon? To put it bluntly no. Plurals in Hebrew do not necessarily mean plural in number.It could be a plural of respect. the are other singular nouns (like the words for face and heaven) that end with the "plural" -im suffix. I should also mention that Elohim is used with a singular verb.

  18. Why did I tattle to LW? No, I don't subscribe to their attempts to censor the internet. I'm merely calling their bluff for allowing people to post this kind of patronizing (albeit insencere) disgraceful excuse for a comment. I'm trying to aquaint them with a fact that most everyone else realizes, that they'll post anything if it appeals well enough to their own, infatuated ego.

    *blogging mobile so a short reply will have to do*

  19. I was warned, but I had to look.
    Can't resist a dare and now I'm paying the price. Thanks for the nightmares!

  20. lemonparty, yeah, along with goat.se and 2girls.

    Things you wished you'd never clicked on

  21. ornitheologist, when you put it that way, it makes much sense.

  22. glory to god is now officially banned at Atheist Central

  23. I'm surprised Ray, or no one else, has blamed me or nonmagic for that profile and porn.

  24. All the definitions for pornography that I found include "to cause sexual excitement". In that case, lemonparty isn't porn.

  25. *Sigh*

    And, of course, Ray even had to go out in public and wine to everyone about it. As Wendy said on AC..

    "Might I suggest you not post stuff like this on the blog? Curious people like me will want to find the profile to see what the fuss is about and ... well ... yuck."

    Man, I even went out of my way to ask Ray not to say anything about it. What part of don't make a fuss about it do you not understand, Ray?

  26. Hey, good work SS !!! And it wasn't me this time !! :)

  27. Oh right NM, I should clarify that comment:

    LOL Ray saw porn...again! haha :-)

  28. by "that comment" I meant my last comment.

  29. All the definitions for pornography that I found include "to cause sexual excitement". In that case, lemonparty isn't porn.

    And it's chock full of socially redeeming value :)

    I didn't actually check out the profile, but I've read what was found; saw no need to go, er, "experience" it for myself.

    On Topic: I've never found Keith to be particularly bright or intellectually honest. I think I stopped responding to him a month ago for this reason - his latest response leads me to believe nothing's changed.


    I really really really wish more fundies would stop trying to bootstrap justification for their beliefs by cherry picking evidence. If you want to believe in something without there being solid/conclusive evidence for it, you have my utmost respect. I mean that sincerely.

    When you point to the most ridiculous stuff and claim it's evidence, however, you reveal yourself to be a tool.

    Faith doesn't require evidence. But if you're faithful enough to accept this, you also need to be honest enough to avoid dishonstly searching for such evidence.

  30. Heh heh. You guys do realise that "Paul Brown" beat Skeptical Sorcerer to it on Atheist Central? By about 1 hour.

    Paul Brown wrote
    "To all fellow atheists, I would strongly advise you not to visit "all glory to god"'s website - the theology on display there just gave me a headache."

  31. HAHA! I didn't see "Paul Brown" though. The only reason I clicked on "glory to god" was because he was the first commenter (if I remember correctly) and his comment was really lame.


Unlike Ray we don't censor our comments, so as long as it's on topic and not spam, fire away.

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.