Yes sir, I have tried to imagine this. I honestly have. Your question: what does it feel like to me?I wonder how she reacted when she found out Santa Claus was fake?
To me, it feels devastatingly pointless. I can't understand how I can live, and love, and appreciate beauty, and then just be gone. The futility of life in such a scenario feels horrid to me, particularly now that I have a husband and children.
I think I would be too chicken to kill myself, but I would find a way to destroy myself while living. (such as drinking every night to escape thinking)
Everything I would plan, or attempt to do, in life, would be colored by the ever-nagging thought "but I'm going to die anyway".
Plus, in the scenario of imagining there's no God, truthfully, I can't wrap my mind around "where did all of this come from?"
Tuesday, September 30, 2008
Pathetic...
On Ray's blog, alphageek asked the fundies if they had ever tried to imagine that the bible was not true, God did not exist, etc. Gisela's response to the question was rather pathetic and reveals the fragilest of minds:
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A lot of that is simply ego. My life is too important, it has to count for more. I can't just live my life, die, and be gone. It goes along with god created me special; he created the entire universe for me; a man who died nearly 200 years ago died for me; god answers my prayers. Jeez, get over yourself.
ReplyDelete"It feels devastatingly pointless. I can't understand how I can live, and love, and appreciate beauty, and then just be gone. The futility of life in such a scenario feels horrid to me, particularly now that I have a husband and children.
ReplyDeleteI think I would be too chicken to kill myself, but I would find a way to destroy myself while living. (such as drinking every night to escape thinking)
Everything I would plan, or attempt to do, in life, would be colored by the ever-nagging thought "but I'm going to die anyway"."
NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FELT WHEN THEY CANCELED STAR TREK!!!!
Even in "imagining what it would mean if it were not true" many people will include a quiet assumption that their belief is true within the imaginings.
ReplyDeletekaitlyn,
ReplyDeleteWhich series?
Come to think of it, I was pretty devastated when Angel got canceled.
@mjarsulic
ReplyDeleteThe Next Generation
Sounds a little like a conversation I just had with a relative of mine. She said she couldn't imagine being an atheist because without faith everything is purposeless and how are you suppose to get through life like that. Then when I tried to rebut her argument she said 'I guess you just haven't had time to develope faith'...
ReplyDelete@mjarsulic
ReplyDeleteI only just recovered from them cancelling Angel!!
I'm curious...
ReplyDeleteFrom the quality of posts at Ray's Funhouse, it was readily apparent that the fundamentalists there have some need to believe the way they do. You can't completely turn a blind eye to logic without having some intense personal reason to do so.
Given this, why is it "pathetic" to find that these people need to believe God exists?
I mean, in one sense I understand what you're saying; I don't have this need, and I find it a little creepy/repulsive.
On the other hand, neither you nor I (nor [I assume] any of Ray's critics here) have this need. Isn't it perhaps a bit judgemental to render very typical sentiments like Gisela's pathetic?
I'm trying to draw a distinction between laughing at their fumbling attempts to justify their personal faith(s), and laughing at their need to attempt to do so.
The surface behavior is retarded - the motivation itself, not so much.
IMHO of course...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewhateverman,
ReplyDeleteWhat I find pathetic is the idea that Gisela would attempt to destroy herself (she gives alcohol as an example) if she did not have faith in God. I find it just as pathetic when professional athletes exhibit destructive behavior after a loss. A good example of this is Quinton Jackson, a former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion. After his last defeat, Jackson began fasting except for energy drinks, which caused a mental breakdown and was followed by a chain of car accidents.
While I don't want any of these folks having power in the public realm, I don't think we can underestimate the level of indoctrination at work here. I did not grow up in an evangelical atmosphere yet I still had the sky daddy guilt and fear complex drilled into my head. You might call it Catholicism. I can't imagine what it would have been like to grow up in what I consider a cultish atmosphere like the people over at Ray's.
ReplyDeleteI've always been a skeptic and a very curious person. If I was "normal" my views would probably be different.
Pete
BTW
ReplyDeleteI also find it pathetic when, on rare occasions, a believer tells me they need their god to avoid committing crimes like murder, rape, larceny, etc.
I agree their motivation to defend their beliefs seems to be just normal human behavior. However, I don't have a problem admitting that I'm a little judgemental about their beliefs. Do I think less of them? When they act like that I do.
ReplyDeleteWhile I generally agree with your second statement below, what I'm quibbling with is the first:
ReplyDeleteWhat I find pathetic is the idea that Gisela would attempt to destroy herself (she gives alcohol as an example) if she did not have faith in God.
I also find it pathetic when, on rare occasions, a believer tells me they need their god to avoid committing crimes like murder, rape, larceny, etc.
Like I said: I'm trying to draw the distinction between the attempt to justify the faith, and the need to do so.
I empathize with people who are just frikkin scared of the unknown, or scared of living life without a safety net. And before you jump on my statement here, take note that "empathize" does not mean "sympathize".
In less ambiguous terms, imagine that Gisela has a pathological condition. She has some deep-seated need to believe the way she does, whether it involves the God of the Bible, or that there's a world-wide conspiracy to keep the Vertically Challenged from holding positions of political power.
Is a mental defect (for lack of a better term) "pathetic"?
Do you or I really know why people believe what they do? I think we both can see that the beliefs are patently ridiculous - but what about the underlying motivation for it...
I just can't label that motivation as "pathetic" without knowing more about what causes it. That's just me, though.
whateverman,
ReplyDeleteI really do not think there is any evidence that religious belief is a mental defect. From what is observed, religious beliefs are a product of tradition in family or society. In some cases, people believe out of fear of death or eternal punishment. I don't think anything shows that religious belief is a disease.
But we're not talking about religious belief in general - we're talking about Gisela's belief.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I am picking on you, but only a little - and it's not intended to be malicious. I just want to dive into this particular topic a bit, rather than take the easy out (for myself) and go "Oh yeah, I can get behind that...".
Why is Gisela's need to believe pathetic?
If you listen to gisela's testimony, she has herself convinced that she is a horrible person. She states that when she confessed her sins, that she believe Jesus would get tired of hearing them. Through acceptance of Jesus, gisela, like many Christians, can pass the buck by not accepting responsibility for their misdeeds.
ReplyDeleteAlso, how is her comment not an attempt to justify her beliefs and definitely statement of why she needs to believe.
I do not think that gisela would become an alcoholic or an axe murderer if she began to doubt. I doubt that she would stop loving her family or caring for them. Thus, I see her statement as a justification of her beliefs.
Hmmm... I'd say it's not so much the need to believe that's pathetic, as the fact that she thinks that she needs to believe.
ReplyDeleteWould she really try to destroy herself if she deconverted? If yes, then I agree with Whateverman: her situation is more akin to a mental disorder than simply pathetic beliefs.
I don't know of anyone who suffered the deconversion process who reacted in this way. Most are much happier as atheists, to be free from the fear and rituals. I don't think Gisela would be any different: but her opinion of atheism has been so twisted by the cult members she surrounds herself with, that she thinks she would lose all hope were she one.
This is pathetic.
kaitlyn said:
ReplyDeleteNOW YOU KNOW HOW I FELT WHEN THEY CANCELED STAR TREK!!!!
Can we get married?
I wish I remember who said it, it may have been Behe, but don't quote me on it. It was a comment along the lines that if they were given absolute evidence that there was no God, they would continue to believe.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone else to enlighten me to who it was.
WHAT?
ReplyDeleteThey Cancelled Star Trek?
Yeager-
ReplyDeleteI beleive that it was a young earther, probably Morris, or maybe Ham.
I don't know if this has been said yet because I haven't read through any of the comments and don't have time to at the moment, but guess what Gisela? You're gonna die anyway no matter what you do.
ReplyDeletePeople that need invisible friends to get through life are weak minded to say the least.
Ok, just skimmed the comments. Yeah, it is pathetic of her.
ReplyDeleteWho is this Gisela person?
ReplyDeleteCan somebody link me to a comment of hers...
R.S.,
ReplyDeletelink
mjarsulic,
ReplyDeleteYeah I listened to Gisela's testimony the other evening too.
What sin was she talking about that she had such problems with? She said it was on mentioned in the sermon on the mount. Dammit I don't want to have to read the bible to figure what salacious acts, if any, she thinks she's guilty of!
Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDS,
ReplyDeleteI think the sin she meant was improperly praying. She seemed to be focused on prayer throughout the testimony.
I was unconsolable when they cancelled Futurama :(
ReplyDeleteI think the belief without God is devoid of an extra o ("good," get it GET IT?) is pretty pathetic, as is her need. I can also empathize with her, though, because she's been wired, or has wired herself, into seeing the world in these terms. I'm sure most of us at some point or another cannot understand how anyone could live a certain way... for instance, I have friends who live a Master/slave relationship all the time. She calls him Sir and he instructs her to do things like only wear skirts. It's a life I just cannot comprehend as being liveable or lovable, but it is the best way to be for my friends.
ReplyDeleteWait... I ACTUALLY think gisela is Ray Comfort, to be honest.
Somebody please buy that ignorant bitch a telescope, or a ticket to a music performance, or a ticket to an art museum, or a Bill Cosby album.
ReplyDeleteMr Smith said...
ReplyDeleteI was unconsolable when they cancelled Futurama :(
Right there with you, but I keep buying the new movies. "Bender's Game" is coming out soon.
I have to agree with Whateverman on this thread. Some people really, really need faith. A prime example is my brother. We were raised Catholic, he is a horrible alcoholic and a very depressed person in general. He has stated to me over and over again that if suicide wasn't a sin, he would have killed himself a long time ago. Do I attempt to convince him that his god doesn't exist? Not on your life. If his faith is what's keeping him alive then by all means he should embrace it. Do I think he should seek professional help regarding his addiction/depression? Of course, and I've said that to him many times. He refuses.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Angel being cancelled was bad, Buffy being cancelled was life altering. Luckily we have comics. I highly recommend both "Buffy Season 8" and "Angel-After the Fall" :)
Liz,
ReplyDeleteI've only read the first nine or ten of Buffy (haven't the big plot twist I'm scared to read, nor the WTF arrival of a miss Melaka Fray) and the first six of Angel, but am digging Angel more. I mean, Xander DOES throw out a Sargeant Fury line in the first issue, but I really am enjoying Angel's ability to revisit characters that disappeared over the years.
Anyway, loving them, need to find the cash to go get the rest from my comic guy. You read the Firefly ones yet? I enjoy that three-part minis are being treated like normal episodes.
I think that many of them really have a troublesome toward disbelief that colors their judgement. Often, they do not react well with people who do not agree with them quickly. I think this is a good representation of the attitide. <<I don't even know why you all bother talking to them anymore about this. Clearly, he is the one with the religious faith in his own stupid idea. Each of us has shown on a number of levels why his thinking is wrong...but it doesn't seem to matter. Your not going to crack this nut.>>
ReplyDeleteI've decided to take a break for that very reason, Pvlivs. They're generally not very interested in discussing ideas, or in working out logical issues.
ReplyDelete