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Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Do atheists not exist?

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9 comments:

  1. WhatevermanSeptember 24, 2008 at 7:16 PM

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  2. WhatevermanSeptember 24, 2008 at 8:11 PM

    Wow - great point.

    And though I'm not a member any more, a big "woot" to see my old family (re. the Bahai's) get a spot in teh list.

    EDIT: spelling

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  3. AnonymousSeptember 24, 2008 at 10:50 PM

    Good Point!

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  4. StewSeptember 25, 2008 at 4:51 AM

    whateverman - our neighbour & friend is Bahai.

    I haven't discussed it with her, so I don't know how clued up she is about the origins of Bahai.

    But - she has just started a wedding business, hosting wedding receptions.
    Knowing Bahai's Islamic roots I asked her how she felt about same sex unions, it's an emerging market and ideal for the non-dom type service she offers.

    After much thought she said she would have to refuse homosexual clients. That came as a shocker to me, coz she's such a nice young woman. I hope that it might make her think about whether her adherance to Bahai is worth compromise.

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  5. WhatevermanSeptember 25, 2008 at 8:00 AM

    @ Stew IRT Bahai's and same sex unions:

    Interesting. I don't remember that being part of their belief system (ie. that such unions should be discouraged {sic}). You're going to make me go talk to the few I still keep in touch with.

    In my experience, most Bahai's adhere to a very inclusive ideolgy: all religions are fundamentally the same, all people deserve education, great things can be accomplished by people of different beliefs, etc. I wont suggest they're the perfect religion - I obviously left for one or more reasons.

    As for it having Islamic roots, however - this is no more true than Christianity having them. The Bahai's believe that all prophets (Mohammed, Jesus, Zoaraster, etc) came from the same God - and that the religions based on those prophets were useful in their respective contemporary time frames. To wit: Christianity & Islam were relevant 2000+ years ago, but not so much now.

    Anyhoo, I'm gonna ask some of my Baha'i friends about the same sex marriage issue. I'm curious now :)

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  6. MiloSeptember 25, 2008 at 9:08 AM

    That is one of the most annoying arguements made by evangelicals. Not only is it insulting to be told what you believe, but they take that premise and run with it.

    "God doesn't hear prayers from atheists"

    "atheists think they can claim they are good people on judgement day"

    "atheists believe in God but they love their sin more"

    Regardless of what that bible verse says-

    atheists don't believe in God
    atheists don't pray
    atheist don't worry about judgement day
    atheists don't hate God

    I guess it justifies their belief that atheists deserve to be tortured in hell for eternity. Even Christians might feel bad about a God that tortures for mere unbelief. But they convince themselves that atheists truely believe and willfully choose to reject God and so deserve all that wrath heaped upon their heads. If it lets them sleep at night... but it just goes to show how self deluded these fundamentalists are.

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  7. WhatevermanSeptember 25, 2008 at 9:42 AM

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  8. WhatevermanSeptember 25, 2008 at 9:43 AM

    Milo wrote: I guess it justifies their belief that atheists deserve to be tortured in hell for eternity.

    I actually think it goes much deeper than that.

    Institutional Christianity needs the Bible to apply to every person, place and event on this planet (and in its past). When you look at it, they have pretty much tried to assert this for the last 2000 years - answers to every problem/question can be found (if you look sincerely and with "an open heart") in the Bible.

    Atheism by its very definition dismisses the (concept of the) Christian God as being irrelevant.

    This simple point of view undercuts EVERYTHING that christian activism promotes, every argument it has used to justify its point of view - and thus the need for activism.

    By asserting that atheists really do believe God exists, the fundamentalists attempt to thwart the power of a "lack of belief". They make Christianity seem appear to be relevant, regardless of any criticism.

    This assertion is FUNDAMENTAL to the Evangelical Christian worldview. Without it, they would have to concede that all opinions are worth considering - as opposed to the belief that their dogma = fact.

    EDIT: removed extra cut/paste text

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  9. MiloSeptember 25, 2008 at 11:26 AM

    whateverman,

    Good point. It explains why they cling to that idea so tightly.

    I once tried to get Ethan to admit that his statement that atheists thought there was "safety in numbers on judgement day" was total bunk. He chose to ignore the question and divert his comment to another subject. Do Christians imagine that atheists sit in basements plotting stategy against God? That we have a plan B to escape the wrath we know is coming but wont admit to? Ethan wouldn't tell me, but I'm very curious.

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