I had to pull this comment foreward and if any of you can tell me why I should not mock, scorn and ridicule this piece of horseshit, you have about three comments to try to talk me out of it.
Jean Gasho-Musuka said...
"About slavery all the answers are in the bible for you. Slaves are told to be obedient to their masters, and masters are told to be fair to their slaves. The bible does not say slavery is wrong. And I don't believe its wrong if it's done in a godly way. In biblical times, slaves did actually benefit from slavery because they had nothing to live on. I myself am a slave of Christ, I was bought by the blood of Jesus. I do not do my will but my master's will. Non Christians are slaves of their master, the Devil. Every person is a slave anyway."
August 4, 2008 11:59 AM
***dale, counting to ten***
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Dale,
ReplyDeleteThis is one of those things that's so asinine that I can't even think of appropriate words at the moment to respond to it myself. I say have at it.
I said the other day in something that I wrote that what religious people really want is a master. I think this is a shining example of that.
I feel that this challenge is addressed to me because of my earlier comments, so I will answer:
ReplyDeleteYes, that's a shockingly ignorant statement and it (the statement and belief) deserves ridicule. I have no issue with ridiculing dangerous and ignorant ideas.
But I don't see what purpose a personal attack on this person will serve (besides letting off steam).
There are ways to tell a person that their beliefs are ignorant and dangerous without resorting to personal insults, ways which are more likely to be absorbed.
I'm not saying the person doesn't deserve it or that you don't have the right. But I am asking, what good would it do?
Man, is it maddening reading things like that...
Hey NM - nice to have you back, was worried.
ReplyDeleteDon't female theists just kind of....boggle your mind? I couldn't imagine worshiping something that places my base value far below a males and judges what I am worth by how obedient I am towards my husband and how many christian puppies I can squeeze out to indoctrinate.
I always wonder why these women hate themselves so much.
@amiable--
ReplyDeleteUh huh. See? Now do you see what I was talking about?
I remember when I was very young and my father was speaking about blacks, specifically their place as a cursed race in the Bible. Somehow it came to slavery (I was still very young, so I'm not sure if it was a question related to the Bible's condoning of slavery). My father made an argument that, like everything in the Bible, it has always been good. It's good for the economy and, for the most part, it was good for the slaves. They were provided for and had a much better life than they would have had anyway.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I know it would be difficult to find an appropriate response to someone who is so shockingly stupid. People hate homosexuals because that's what the Bible says. People think blacks are inferior as that's what the Bible says. People subjugate women because that's what the Bible says. So, I don't think it's that much of a stretch for them to say slavery is good because that's what the Bible says.
It would be cathartic and would feel good to let wail on such an individual. I don't think it would be beneficial to that person though.
This person sounds much like the kind of person who can supposedly justify any moral value in the Bible as good, without using the Bible. In regards to homosexuality, I had a debate with my father on it when I was much older and long out of the house. He argued why it is wrong and why people don't have the right to do it without using the Bible. He hadn't a leg to stand on, though, by the end.
I think an appropriate response would be much along that line here.
Also, I just remembered. Only a few months ago when I was in town for a business meeting, I decided to come out to my mother as an atheist. We had a several hour discussion and one of the things I brought up when discussing why I reject the Bible was that it says a father can sell his daughters into slavery. Her response was very much like Jean's: isn't that what he's done anyway?
ReplyDeleteIt's important to point out the distinction in use between a slave who is inherently chattel and a slave who submits to a will.
I have donned a pair of mittens so I cannot type for a while.
ReplyDelete****dale, smoke curling off ear tops****
Maragon, thanks! I think one of the most important jobs of parents is to instill an internal locus of control in kids and teach them to think critically so that they don't fall into the trap of thinking that they can be owned by someone else or that they need to place another human beings reasoning above their own simply because of gender.
ReplyDeleteMaragon,
ReplyDeleteYou said,
"I couldn't imagine worshiping something that places my base value far below a males and judges what I am worth by how obedient I am towards my husband and how many christian puppies I can squeeze out to indoctrinate."
That's OK, honey. Now get back to folding my socks, and btw, I'll expect dinner promptly at five. :>
captain howdy:
ReplyDeleteI don't think I conceded anything in admiting that this was an ignorant comment or that it was frustrating to read. I never claimed that discussions with believers were not frustrating.
And I still don't believe that personal attacks and profanity are the appropriate response.
Un-fuckin-believable.
ReplyDeleteShe would condone female circumcision if there was a bible passage for it.
She so far gone that I'm afraid that the only good acknowledging her is for the practice of dismantling her arguments for the lurkers.
Marlin,
ReplyDeleteI think that was covered in the "if your right eye offends thee pluck it out" verse. Better to pluck off your female parts than spend eternity in hell!
Good point Milo. Fortunately this has not really been on the christian hit parade. Though it's suprising they havent targeted the tingly bits more.
ReplyDeleteWow, just wow.
Dale,
ReplyDeleteI don't see anyone here doing anything but opposing what Jean has said, so I'm not sure where your anger towards us is coming from, friend.
Maragon,
ReplyDeleteOK, I was disappointed that no one was pointing out the vile, despicable, degrading nature of slavery. Here we are arguing over adjectives.
My question for Jean is, Who decides who will be the slaves and who will be the masters? And who will decide who they will be?
Once that can of highly compressed worms sees the light of day then there are a plethora of issues that need to be dealt with.
Who will police the Masters? etc, etc? Do the masters then have masters? What if they are in cahoots and oppress the slaves, which is always the case? Exuuuuuuse me for asking.
I am sorry, but I expected much more opposition to Jean's statement.
Dale,
ReplyDeleteI think alot of us are a bit too floored to do much more than regard Jean's statement as insane and dismiss it.
When someone proclaims themselves a slave and condones such actions while being a black female, one has to conclude that there's little to nothing to be said that would convince that individual otherwise.
I love to debate theists - but some people are beyond reasoning.
I am sorry, but I expected much more opposition to Jean's statement.
ReplyDeleteDale, I can only speak for myself, but I think that the reason why I didn't show the appropriate outrage is because her comment is SO COMPLETELY OVER-THE-TOP BATSHIT INSANE that I just figured that it was obvious.
It's as though we all just watched somebody jump into a swimming pool full of dog shit. I didn't feel the need to say, "Hey, that person just jumped into a swimming pool full of dog shit." I figured that it was just understood.
Dale,
ReplyDeleteI don't think jean even understands the implications of what she is saying. She's gone. Someone posted about the Stockholm Syndrome awhile back. Jean's exhibit A. She's a brainwashed cultist, able to contort her mind to whitewash the most vile shit because if it's god it's good. I have no problem ripping into her. It might wake her up but more likely it'll just feed her persecution complex without having to actually be persecuted.
My first run in with this type of fundie was about 15 years ago. My wife was invited by a co-worker to a lecture by a "couples expert". This was before I would have called myself an atheist but when I saw the bibles come out I knew I was in for a special treat. The speaker went right to Ephessians. Two hours later my wife and I left, stunned by what we'd seen and heard. It was right out of Stepford Wives or Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
It's sad that anyone, especially a black woman, could be so fucked up on god that that attitude is reasonable.
Now I think a profanity laced tirade is just the ticket. Seriously.
Maragon and Lance,
ReplyDeleteOK, I thought that might be the case.
I thought I had seen "everything" until that comment.
I am convinced that "Jean is insane," and not just a little bit. If she does, in fact, have kids, I genuinely fear for them.
Thanks.
Thanks, Craig.
ReplyDeleteI am still absolutely shocked over this. The only other comment I have seen by a christian in recent months was one by Vera at the rayfuck site, where she tried to justify the genocides of the bible by sayong that the people were better off by being killed than leading their oppressed lives.
This is a case study in the delusion of christianity and how it manifests itself.
In fact, I am positively ill over the fact that this could be a real person, right here on this blog, actually proposing these ideas. I am in total and utter disbelief.
Who could have taught her this stuff, or could it be that she is a mentally ill bibliolator with a new higher degree of absurdity/
I think Ray Cumfuck should be consulted on this!
I fear that Jean is in control of someone who has convinced her of these insane delusions to take advantage of her children, if you know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteWho's in favor of people as chattle??
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong with these people? This is clear evidence of a collective psychosis.
Has anyone posted this to FSTDT? this will go to #1 with a bullet. And likely bring more traffic to the site.
ReplyDeleteMarlin, I have.
ReplyDeleteBut now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22
ReplyDeleteI am a slave of God, a slave to holiness. I do the will of my father. Before God adopted me into his Kingdom by the death of His Son Jesus Christ, I was a slave to sin. This is what I mean when I say everyone is a slave. Atheists are slaves of their Father the Devil. I am not being rude but that is what the bible saysabout you. Whether you like it or not you are all slaves. As Jesus said 'You are of you father the Devil, and the desires of you father you want to do'. Its just the truth as it is.
God is a God of order and He has given us rules to live by, which is also for our own good.
Children are commanded to be obedient to their parents,parents to teach their children in a godly way, wives to be subbmissive to their husbands, husband to love their wives, slaves to obey their masters, and masters to be fair to their slaves. And all humanity under the authority of God. Thats is the order of God's creation.
This is what I find atheists has a problem with, you want to be your own god and you do not want authority over you in any kind or form. Its amazing how many homes are broken because wives refuse to submit to their husbands or children not obeying parents or husbands not loving their wives etc
Yet when you become a christian, thats when you start to realise that you are now a servant and you do not do what you want but what the Father wants. Thats my point.
"Its amazing how many homes are broken because wives refuse to submit to their husbands.."
ReplyDeleteIf I stopped thinking for myself and started acting like a mindless sheep ala Jean here, I feel quite certain that my fiance would leave me.
And Jean, we don't believe that your bible is the inerrant work of any god, I explained this to you. Therefore you quoting the opinions and fairy stories contained within your bible don't really convince us of anything other than your complete inability to think for yourself.
If I stopped thinking for myself and started acting like a mindless sheep ala Jean here, I feel quite certain that my fiance would leave me.
ReplyDeleteYeah, if my wife started to submit to my every whim, I think I'd be pretty weirded out by that too.