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Sunday, July 13, 2008

Refuting Way of the Master

I imagine that many of you have seen these already, but just in case you haven't, here are some great videos that eviscerate the "science" of Ray Comfort & Kirk Cameron. Oh, and an interesting FYI - the guy who made the videos is a Christian.


  1. I have seen them. Good work by the way. But the one I really like is the one that puts images on top of the banana argument, like a photo of some aboriginal with the word "God?" That was nice.

    Anyway, I just want to share with you my feeling that I am fed up with the stupidity of not using absolute arguments when something is obviously false. In other words, these fundies try hard to use what they think to be "scientific thinking" not to allow us to say things like:

    There is no way to sin against something that absolutely adamantly emphatically does not exist at all.

    Come on! We can certainly do this. I do not care if Dawkins says it is unscientific, we can very easily disprove the God of the Bible by proving that there was no such thing as instantaneous creation, or pointing out to this god's contradictory features. Thus, if there were a god, it would emphatically not be the one of the bible (this Dawkins agreed on, actually). Then we can further state that given all the imaginary gods of human need for understanding/explanation, there is no reason to expect that we will find a point where we HAVE to attribute anything to any god. Thus, two absolute negations possible, the very very certain: not such thing as the god of the bible. The also very certain, but more out of inference: no gods whatsoever.

    The second is more "pragmatic" than "rationalist," but it is perfectly valid.

    I am not trying to impose this on you, just sharing my thought. You can remain "agnostic" (as in exceedingly small probability that there is a god). I will not. I do not think it makes any sense.



  2. That's awesome, we need more Christians showing other Christians you don't have to deny science/evolution.

  3. GE, I'm with you, and that is the way I see things.

    I think that what we need to do is pick and choose our battles carefully. For me, I really don't care if people want to believe in a God. Yeah, it's illogical and unnecessary, but the fact remains that most people do.

    The problem I have (and I imagine that all of us on this blog have it as well) is when they make their anti-science claims, and they want to horn their religion in the science classroom.

    That's what we need to focus on. There are plenty of believers out there who are willing to be on our side when it comes to that, and it's important that we don't turn them off.

    For me, once nonsense like "intelligent design" is no longer a serious concern, then we can start getting into the whole notion as to whether God even exists or not. One hill at a time, I guess.

  4. Lance,

    I am with you too. I started with the anti-science thing ad the treachery and lies only, but ended up talking against the whole thing. Maybe I no longer know the boundaries. Perhaps it started when I was surprised by the many other things this lot attach to their shitty views. it is not just anti-science, but their conviction that atheism means love of "sin," we are all evil doers, or their stupid homophobia, and so many other assumptions. So you see, I felt I had to advance one more step, then one more. So, despite I completely agree with you, I have been carried away.

    In summary, I agree with you completely. One step at a time. I would be happy just with the stop to misrepresentation of science; then to misunderstanding of atheism and of people with different ideas. If they want to keep their god, I could not care less.

    So, thanks for helping me to calm down. :-)


  5. Hey, no problem. I'm lucky enough to know some Christians who aren't anti-science (one is a biologist, even) and don't believe that atheists are that way because they "love sin".

    In fact, an old high school buddy of mine, who's now a Christian singer/songwriter if you can believe that, wrote a pretty good blog entry explaining atheists. It didn't consist of the usual bullshit that Ray and his ilk say. I don't remember it exactly, but he likened an atheist to somebody who hears that his house is on fire. Instead of just taking a person's word for it, he feels the need to check EVERY room of the house first. A bit simplistic, but hardly insulting, eh?

  6. I don't spend much time on YouTube, so this was welcome news to me. This chap is very good.

    "A lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is getting its boots on," observed Mark Twain.


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