Read this perfectly reasonable and common atheist argument about how absurd it is that God would send someone to hell over what name he is called and what we believe about him:
"Had any of you been born in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, etc, there is nearly a 100% chance that you would be Muslim, and no amount of free will given to you from Jesus would prevent that. You would be doomed to Hell strictly because your parents lived in the wrong country. Think about that the next time you picture your God as all-loving and merciful. If He exists like you say He does, He is allowing millions of souls to go to Hell because they were born into a nation that does not believe in Him. How do you justify this?" C. Diddy
Now shudder at Ray's response:
God is not all-loving and merciful. To say that that is the sole makeup of His character is to create an idol. That god doesn’t exist, except in the minds of those that conceive Him to be like that. The God of the Bible is holy, righteous, full of justice and truth, as well as love and mercy.
So, if God sees fit to save someone in America He does so because of His goodness. If He saves someone in Iraq, India, China, Japan, He does so because He is good, and He reveals His goodness by sending missionaries to those countries so that they will hear the gospel. Some countries forbid Christian missionaries from proclaiming the message of everlasting life. Other countries permit it. The Bible says that no one comes to the Son unless the Father draws Him, and God draws whom He will to Himself whether the person to whom He is extending mercy lives in Iraq, New Zealand, China, Japan or the United States. He may be calling you right now, so don’t harden your heart to His voice.
So Ray's concept of God, claimed to be derived from holy writ, is a God who puts His message in book form that must be translated into numerous languages before people can even read it, not to mention the fact that people still haven't heard it 2,000 years later. Now, despite the fact that it is unfair to be punished for not hearing something you didn't know existed, but this God, if He feels so inclined....will find a way for some chosen individuals-no matter where they live or what access they have to the holy writ-to be "saved" by hearing the message. So, a message to the rest of you who have not heard it, or already believe a different book is "true"....YOU ARE FUCKED! Jesus "extends mercy", according to Ray, to who he fucking chooses, and if you ain't on the list, tough shit. It's hell for you guys. Well, who could blame Him? Heaven can't be that big. Also, lots of people are assholes, wouldn't you be a little choosey about who hears your message?? You aren't going to invite everyone you know to your big party. Why should Jesus. Hell, I admire this in a person (or deity). Oh, just one thing....HOW THE FUCK CAN WE CALL THIS "JUSTICE", AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW THE FUCK DOES RAY KNOW THIS? I mean come on, its as if Jesus and Ray "hang". "Ray, I got to get a message to my peeps...and the rest of them. I can't be bothered, I mean, hasn't that book gotten around yet? Anyways, I'll buy the beer next time, and you let them know that I'm not all that loving, and I'm not all that merciful. Who the fuck do they think I am?" Picture it. Now picture what actually happens. Ray is at home, picking his nose, thinking of how to get out of this argument. "Shit, I'll just tell them that God only loves those who love themselves enough to find something they didn't know they needed to look for. Yeah, that should work!" Fuck you, Ray.
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I read that.
ReplyDeleteI was shocked, at first I though, "Is Ray reading our posts?!"
I's obvious he's running out of ideas.
Damn, I forgot the T.
ReplyDeleteWell, a good argument never goes away, and this is a good one. Yet, religious people don't have a clue what to say. To do so, you would have to "know" God. Which Ray clearly thinks he does. I mean, Jesus and his "dad" differ quite a bit. Dad thinks slavery is good, and is an ethnic cleanser. Jesus is so much more calm and rational-loving. Except that when you are dead, Dad is done with you. Under "gentle Jesus", once you die...the fun begins (as Hitchens always says). But, how could it be "justice" and "merciful" for a person to be thrown into hell if they were born on an island isolated from "Jesus freaks"? Doesn't their actions, how they treated others, matter at all? Its all bullshit. The reason they say this is so that they can convince bleeding heart Christians to spend their time and energy preaching to starving people, so the numbers swell and Christianity can get an edge on other religions. Its quite disgusting.
ReplyDeleteIt really is sickening. The thought of a Hell, a place of eternal torment and suffering, created by a loving God...Is sickening.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had a stunt with Christianity, I always thought everything God did was justified. I realized how stupid and ignorant it was of me to think so.
Nothing wrong with a little Doublethink. Just watch:
ReplyDeletePizza is my absolute favorite food.
I wouldn't eat pizza if my life depended on it.
See - both are true. No problem!
How Orwellian!
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it stand to reason that if there were a god and he were all powerful and ...whatever else they attribute to him...that if he wanted people to hear some message that he had he could just.....you know, tell them himself?
ReplyDeleteWhat's interesting about this is that he insists that to call God all loving is idolotry (which is all well and good, I actually agree with this). But the problem is he then turns around and states the following:
ReplyDeleteThe God of the Bible is holy, righteous, full of justice and truth, as well as love and mercy.
I don't know about you guys, but I count 6 idolotrous comments there.
So he says you can't call God something, then turns around and calls God something. What a nim-rod
Ah, yes. The old "god hates the same things/people/ice cream flavors you hate, that's how you know god is real/just/mighty particular about his desserts" or some such nonsense.
ReplyDeleteThis is news?! "In other developments, the sky is blue and ice is cold."
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to god is love? Actually what Ray is saying is very biblical, Jesus doesn't want everyone to be saved.
ReplyDelete"And when he [Jesus] was alone, those present along with the Twelve questioned him about the parables. He answered them, "The mystery of the kingdom of God has been granted to you. But to those outside everything comes in parables, so that 'they may look and see but not perceive, and hear and listen but not understand, in order that they may not be converted and be forgiven.'" (Mark 4:10-12 NAB)