"Those of you who are regular atheists must be getting worried. Not about the future, but about the fact that you know what the Bible had to say about the future...
We are seeing Bible prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes. Experts have long predicted that we would see a world-wide economic collapse, a one-world government, and the raising up of a charismatic world leader that will bring peace and stability and will not let people buy and sell without a mark...
As this unfolds, it is slowly dawning on you that the Bible is right, and that all those "mistakes" you found in the Bible were actually your mistakes."
I don't know what passages Ray is referring to, but if the Bible did predict that a country called the United States would have a financial crisis due to the home-lending / mortgage business in the year 2008, I think it's time to reevaluate our position on the Bible.
I disagree with Ray though that just because one part of the Bible could make such an amazing prediction that means that all of the Bible must be true and Hell exists. Ray is over-extending his deductive reasoning and ignoring the fact that his theory wouldn't fly given an inductive approach.
However, I will admit that if the Bible is so accurate as to predict detailed events that will happen 2,000 years in the future, maybe we should take other parts more seriously.
Posts
And if Weemaryanne had wheels, then she would be a wagon.
ReplyDelete;-)
And if the bible mentioned a country called the united states, then you would see several countries named the united states. It is amazing how people will try to fulfill prophecies to prove their religion.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know what passages Ray is referring to that makes reference to the United States and the mortgage crisis?
ReplyDeleteSo I found this.
ReplyDeleteRevelations 18:9-24
9 "And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning,
10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'
11 "And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13 and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives.
14 "The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15 "The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16 saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!' And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
18 and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What city is like the great city?'
19 "And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!'
20 "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her."
21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22 "And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."
I'll comment in another post
1. The verse depends greatly on the idea that Babylon means "The United States of America" or "The World Economy" and not just Babylon.
ReplyDelete2. Are chariots and slaves publicly traded on the NASDAQ or the Dow? If so, how can one get in on the ground floor?
3. It will only take one hour for everything to go to hell in a hand-basket.
4. The fall of the market will cause musical instruments and lights to no longer work.
Kaitlyn-
ReplyDeleteI believe that was in II Greenspanithian chapter 6, verse 66.
I used to know the whore of Babylon, but then she started dating Elliot Spitzer.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Babylon destroyed a long time ago? Doesn't that disprove the Bible?
ReplyDeleteBible enthusiasts tend to play the "It has to be rebuilt and then destroyed again" card if the target of the verse is already gone. Otherwise, they play the "The verse didn't really say X had to be destroyed, it meant Y had to be destroyed" card.
ReplyDeleteIt's a crappy deck of cards.
Wee,
ReplyDelete"And if Weemaryanne had wheels, then she would be a wagon."
And if I had six tits on me, I would be an udder.
/d
Wee,
ReplyDeleteIt would be better if you had three wheels. Then you could be a wheelbarrow. ***wink***
Kaitlyn wrote
ReplyDelete"I disagree with Ray though that just because one part of the Bible could make such an amazing prediction that means that all of the Bible must be true and Hell exists"
Hell does not exist according to and because Ray Comfort says so. Hell exists because of God and sinners will spend eternity there. It has nothing to do with Ray.
Kaitlyn wrote
"However, I will admit that if the Bible is so accurate as to predict detailed events that will happen 2,000 years in the future, maybe we should take other parts more seriously."
Its either you believe or you dont Kaitlyn, you have to stop confusing yourself. You cant pick and choose from the bible what to believe.
"You cant pick and choose from the bible what to believe."
ReplyDeleteI agree!
Yeah, that deck of cards is full of jokers.
ReplyDeleteSo, Jean, you believe/accept all of the Bible? Every jot and tittle?
Yeah, if the Bible did mention the United States of America. Or Russia and Iran instead of God and Magog, or if they weren't talking about events from their own times, or from their past. But a thousand years from believers will still be waiting, and they'll still be seeing signs of the end and the return of Jesus.
ReplyDeleteJean said:
ReplyDeleteYou cant pick and choose from the bible what to believe.
If I had an irony meter, it would have just exploded.
Let's see, where is the financial crisis going down? New York, Frankfurt, Paris, Singapore, Tokio, London, all the towns and cities where people are losing their homes, where companies go broke because they speculated on rising housing prices and lose their investments.
ReplyDeleteAny burning? Smoke? Ruins? No.
The verses yaeger posted are very clear in what they mean. They are a prediction, prophecy and lament addressing those who would make a profit on the markets of physical, transportable goods - telling them to abandon the search for profit and luxury and to return to humility and piety. While I agree that a sense of humility would be a great improvement to the mindsets of those who ran the markets of global economy into the ground (not at ground yet, but down a steep hill at least), it is a huge stretch to connect these events to the downfall of a specific city and the loss of gemstones, precious metals, livestock and slavery goods. Note that currently the reactions to the crisis are driving the prices of gems and gold sharply upward, which is the precise opposite of what the verses predict. If you are a literalist, verses specifically addressing the downfall of a specific city cannot mean the current crisis. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to interpret the verses in a global, modernized sense, then the days of Genesis can just as easily mean ages, and their sequence may not actually mean the factual sequence of the development of this planet but a reflection of the thoughts of uninformed and speculating tribesmen. Very clearly, if Revelations is a prophecy of our times, then it is not a literal understanding that declares them such.
@Jean
ReplyDeleteYou wrote: "You can't pick and choose from the bible what to believe."
Why not?
Its either you believe or you dont Kaitlyn, you have to stop confusing yourself. You cant pick and choose from the bible what to believe.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Jean, but this is exactly what fundamentalist Bible believers do.
You cant pick and choose from the bible what to believe.
ReplyDeleteI know it's already been over quoted, but I'm taking a different approach: Why the heck not?
"The Bible" isn't a single entity: it's a compilation of a large number of texts, all by different authors, all written at different times, and put together into the moder compilation by the decisions of a bunch of polititions in the 4th(?) century, translated from the native language into one which didn't even exist when any of it was written.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that every single one of the authors was 'divinely inspired': why could they not have accidentally integrated a few pretenders? FSM knows there were enough fake gospels circulating at the time, if you consider all the ones which were left out of the modern bible.
I think that you should pick and choose which parts to believe (if you really must believe), based on what is sensible and ethical, and what is fantastical, contradictory, or an insult to human morality.