Since there are some ignorants lurking that actually think we can trust our senses, I thought I'd tell you about it.
In this study they showed a picture of a banana to the participants and asked them to adjust the color on a computer screen to the background grey. They all ended up adjusting the banana to a blueish shade but called it grey. Real grey bananas were considered as slightly yellow.
Unfortunately you can't really reproduce this on a normal screen, but if you make a black and white print of a banana on a grey background and ask another person which color is still in there, they will probably say yellow.
to make a long story short:
We don't see with our eyes but with our brains. Color doesn't exist outside our visual cortex. And we cannot trust our senses
Not even for these quite basic facts of reality. So, if you feel there is a god, you can never be sure that it's not only your brain tricking you...
Posts
Smartass.
ReplyDeleteThat is really interesting though. I think everyone's had that late-night, student conversation about how; "what we all call red looks different to everyone but we just agree to, like, call it red even though it isn't really red for everyone.....dude, my hands are huge!". Depends how much you've smoked, of course.
The problem is, God - omnipotent as he is - can reveal colour to us in such a way that we can know that it is absolutely that colour, absolutely.
Although, when I see 'we', I really mean 'Sye, SCMike and a few other 'special' cases' and when I say 'know', I really mean 'bullshit presuppositional posturing to avoid confronting reality'. Hope that clears things up a bit.
Matt said:
ReplyDelete"I think everyone's had that late-night, student conversation about how; "what we all call red looks different to everyone but we just agree to, like, call it red even though it isn't really red for everyone.....dude, my hands are huge!"."
I remember the first philosophy course I ever took at age 18. The kids who had never read anything philosophical before that time we walking around campus saying something very similar and trying to impress the business majors with what they thought was the deepest thought to ever grace mankind. It was very annoying, but kinda cute.
I really wish I had a subscription to Nature Neuroscience. Neuroscience has always fascinated me.
To be the contrarian - this should also state that you can't believe there isn't a God, if you continue to ask for 'visual proof', yet can't trust your senses...
ReplyDeletelaof,
ReplyDeleteyou're completely right. It's impossible to know something about the supernatural. Maybe there is a god, maybe not. But scientific models are quite reliable without supernatural interference.
I am perfectly able to respect theism. What I can't respect is if theists claim absolute proof when they can't provide it...
Tilia -
ReplyDeleteI totally understand your statements.
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying this more than it has to be.. forgive me if I am... sometimes I'm the fool as well.
But I wonder... do people sometimes see what isn't there? Or, do they not see what IS there?
(Are they seeing the yellow of the banana that isn't there, or are they NOT seeing the 'black and white' that IS there?)
To say that people can 'fool themselves', or perhaps, only see what they want to see - can be taken both ways.
..and Tilia - I'm merely implying that this is how some people deal with the natural world. Even leaving the supernatural out of it for now, if you wish.
ReplyDeleteexpatmatt,
ReplyDelete""Although, when I see 'we', I really mean 'Sye, SCMike and a few other 'special' cases' and when I say 'know', I really mean 'b******t presuppositional posturing to avoid confronting reality'. Hope that clears things up a bit.""
One quick question. How do you know what "reality" is without reliable senses?? Perhaps I am the one confronting reality and you're the one who's not. God Bless.
laof,
ReplyDeleteblack and white is processed differently than color. Black and white give you information about contrast.
In this example your memory that bananas are yellow is just stronger than the visual information you perceive.
Our eyes see a lot of things that our brains don't process. And our brains interprets the information it gets from the eyes. Optical illusions work that way.
We see things that aren't there and don't see much of what is there.
tilia,
ReplyDelete""Optical illusions work that way.""
Without reliable senses, how could one know that illusions (i.e. false perceptions) exist, as opposed to true perceptions?? God Bless.
SCMike,
ReplyDeletethis single time I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you really want to understand something instead of just trying to tell atheists that they are stupid. Don't mess it up.
What we perceive as reality isn't nessecarily the truth. UV light isn't more or less true than blue light. We can't see it. Bees can. Reality about colors is subjective. The same is true about the acustic or the taste sense for example.
All we know about us and about the world, we learned using these subjective senses. We understand enough to survive in the world, but not enough to know the truth.
scmike,
ReplyDeleteI've mentioned this before; the Flying Spaghetti Monster revealed the truth of reality to me in a way that I could be sure it was really reality that I was really having revealed to me in a very real way. Really. He's omnipotent like that (also tasty with a nice marinara sauce).
You may very well be confronting reality as you see it, but it's only as real as the FSM allows it to be.
May you be touched by His Noodley Appendage
tilia,
ReplyDelete""All we know about us and about the world, we learned using these subjective senses. We understand enough to survive in the world, but not enough to know the truth.""
Is this true?? God Bless.
tilia -
ReplyDelete"We see things that aren't there and don't see much of what is there."
Exactly. We can definitely agree on that.
You write quite concisely for a non-native speaker (of English). Perhaps better than I?
expatmatt,
ReplyDelete""I've mentioned this before; the Flying Spaghetti Monster revealed the truth of reality to me in a way that I could be sure it was really reality that I was really having revealed to me in a very real way. Really. He's omnipotent like that (also tasty with a nice marinara sauce).
You may very well be confronting reality as you see it, but it's only as real as the FSM allows it to be.
May you be touched by His Noodley Appendage""
I'm thrilled to see that you have abandoned atheism and that you realize the need to invoke a deity to account for knowledge and the validity of your senses, since atheism cannot.
However, do you have an objective revelation that comports with reality, is internally consistent, and makes sense of absolute, universal, abstract entities that we can examine to validate your claim?? God Bless.
laof,
ReplyDeletethanks :P
Maybe that's because I bother to consult the online dictionary now and then...
@tilia:
ReplyDelete"Maybe that's because I bother to consult the online dictionary now and then..."
Ouch.. don't know whether to take that as a 'dig' or not...
:-/
scmike,
ReplyDelete"I'm thrilled to see that you have abandoned atheism and that you realize the need to invoke a deity to account for knowledge and the validity of your senses, since atheism cannot."
When did anyone claim that atheism was something to be invoked to account for anything? I'm pretty sure that most people who identify themselves as atheists do not pin their understanding of reality on their lack of belief in a specific deity.
I do not pin my understanding of the global economic market on my lack of desire to own a coffee shop and I don't see any reason why I should; is there something I'm missing here?
I am glad that you got a cheap thrill out of my comment though - good for you!
Oh, and I never said that there was a 'need' to invoke a deity, I just did; it was also revealed to me that atheists can gain a reasonable understanding of reality through critical thinking.
It is interesting that you said 'invoke a deity' in relation to explaining something you do not understand - that's exactly what ancient (and, unfortunately, some modern) peoples used to do when they couldn't figure something out; it's where all the good myths came from...
"However, do you have an objective revelation that comports with reality, is internally consistent, and makes sense of absolute, universal, abstract entities that we can examine to validate your claim?? God Bless."
Penne alla Arrabiata ?
"However, do you have an objective revelation that comports with reality, is internally consistent, and makes sense of absolute, universal, abstract entities that we can examine to validate your claim??
ReplyDeleteHe does. The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Stop fooling yourself, and learn the truth about His Noodly Goodness.
In the strictest sense (no pun intended) all we have is our senses. We don't really know that there is a "real world" to which they correspond. All our conclusions about the limitations of our senses come from, well, our senses. The usefulness of our senses is that it helps us to the world of our perceptions to to adapt the world of our perception to suit our purposes.
ReplyDeletesorry laof,
ReplyDeletethat wasn't meant personally. I just have to use it, because I still have to improve my vocabulary.
Quasar,
ReplyDeleteAll flee His Noodly embrace to start with, but they know in their stomachs that only a complex carbohydrate like the FSM can fill that void in their diet.
I just hope they realize the truth before it's too late - we wouldn't want them to miss the beer volcano now, would we?