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Thursday, October 30, 2008

Judas Roll Call...

I just got done reading through the comments on Ray's latest post. He basically called me (not directly) Judas.

That's right: for almost 1/2 my life, I was a faker. I went to church, studied the bible, tithed, played in several christian bands, and even converted some people to christianity.

I was mocked, laughed at, picked on and excluded all because I said what I believed...or apparently didn't believe. I was faking it. I must have loved the abuse.

And, because I don't believe that anymore, it somehow negates 1/2 my life.

So, please, tell me I am not the only one here. Who else is a Judas?

PS: Rufus, I sympathize.

WWJD? (the J being Judas, of course)


  1. Half, hell I gave up Christianity finally just under a year ago. I have had my doubts for a long time though and was sliding to a more deistic christian view, until finally I just asked myself why do I believe.

  2. 'I was mocked, laughed at, picked on and excluded all because I said what I believed...or apparently didn't believe. I was faking it. I must have loved the abuse.'

    You were not faking anything. You can not fake what you dont know.

  3. Right here...including the performing in christian bands, as well as managing the sound system and A/V at my church.

    I wanted to believe...I mean I really wanted to...especially after the death of my first wife. And for a time there, I had almost convinced myself... I had managed (for the most part) to compartmentalize my faith away from my rationality.

    And then, as the grief faded and my brain started functioning more normally, I found that wall between the compartments thinning and splintering. I tried to avoid thinking about all the problems and inconsistencies of faith, but in the end, I couldn't do it. I couldn't ignore reason any longer.

    So yes, I guess I'm a "false convert"...a "Judas". And you know what? I'm proud of the designation. After witnessing the best that "real" Christianity has to offer, I'm happy to be called a fake.

  4. Tripmaster,

    I still do the AV for my parent's church. We have a don't ask don't tell policy. I only do it once a month and that is the only time I go. I promised them before I deconverted that I would do it, so I still do it.

  5. Judas here, too. I've told my story so any times, there isn't any point in rehashing it.

    But I love how every time ex-Christians do tell their story certain fundies love to play the No True Scotsman card. Maybe it makes them feel more self righteous, but I defiantly think it just makes them look ignorant. (HI JEAN!)

  6. Count another Judas here.

    I find that "false convert" shit so damn insulting.

    I told one of the fundies not to do that, but I cannot find the link.

    Anyway, respect and humility do not seem to be their strong points.

  7. I can't be a "false convert" since I use to be Catholic.

    The part I found absolutely hilarious is that Ray would actually say ("like Judas"). How come his precious God/Jesus didn't know Judas was a "false convert" until the last supper? He lets false convert guy hang out with him? Plus, how could Judas be a false convert when Christianity hadn't even been invented? Didn't Jesus have to die first in order for Christianity to be? Since he killed himself right after Jesus was arrested, he never had a chance to be a Christian.

  8. What I don't understand is; how was Judas a False Convert?

    He killed himself before Christ was crucified (I think) so couldn't ever have 'converted'.

    He knew Jesus personally (perhaps even in the Biblical sense, who knows?) and so the question of him believing in Jesus is kind of moot.

    He sold Jesus out, but Jesus already knew beforehand and was cool about it, so he was just doing God's will anyway.

    I just don't get it. Is Ray suggesting that Judas followed Jesus around for all those years, witnessing miracles left, right and centre and STILL wasn't convinced of His divinity?

    Ah, I get it; the fundies don't want anyone taking the actions of Judas as written in the Bible and wondering why this guy who knew Jesus personally thought his life was only worth a bag of money... it blows the whole scam wide open.

    On topic: former deist here so no false conversion I'm afraid.

  9. Liz,

    Great minds and all that (although yours appears to be 2 minutes ahead of mine).


    How've you been?

  10. Ok, so I went over and read Ray's latest trash. This is a very telling statement from Ray:

    I wonder how many gullible theists have become atheists because they believed that so many great minds of history denied the existence of God?

    First of all, Ray has no room to talk about people being gullible, and second, what possible difference does it make who is/was a famous atheist? I saw the same thing coming from one of them the other day about Dawkins, saying that he was leading people off into hell.

    Personally, I didn't look to any famous people to tell me what to think about religion. I reasoned myself out of it. I wouldn't care if Dawkins himself came out tomorrow and publicly announced he was a Christian, it wouldn't change my views on Christianity. I'd look at what he had to say and take into consideration his evidence, but as far as religion goes his opinion doesn't hold any more sway with me than that of anyone else.

    The point is, I'm not a sheep. I don't look to famous people or authority figures to tell me what to think. I can think and reason for myself so there isn't any need for me to look at lists of atheists or theists to see what they did or didn't believe. It's irrelevant information and per usual with Ray, he's just doing it to piss off atheists.

  11. Heavenlies, what's with the correlation between "false converts" and the A/V ministry? Out with the media team; they're breeding Judases!

    I used to do A/V for my church, and a lot of graphic design as well. Apparently we really are the cool ones...

  12. Bob, the Judas accusation comes up regularly at Ray's blog; don't let it bother you. You know better and they simply don't wish to know.

  13. Actually, I think that Christians ought to revere Judas. Or non-believers can consider him yet another piece of evidence supporting the contention that the Christian God is evil. Just think about it. Judas's betrayal has been portrayed as a necessary condition for Christ's crucifixion with all the blah-blah-blah that then follows. So Judas either consciously or unconsciously made all of Christianity possible. With no expectation of anything other than burning forever in the lowest levels of Hell. What greater service to God could their be? And look how God rewards him.

    Kinda makes you wonder if Christians would still revere their God if they didn't have magic candyland to hope for after death. You know. Say that God's the great creator, etc. etc., but the word to the faithful is that when they die, that's it, they're dead and it's over, just like everybody else. Would they still worship and love that sort of God?

  14. Yeah, count me in. My good seed sprouted and then got choked by weeds.

    Or something.

    I can't remember where I read it, here or at Adrian's Atheist Forums, a new atheist had just given a deconversion story and someone welcomed them with "welcome to the happy place"

    That's how I see me now. In the happy place

    Jean - looking foxy in the new avatar!

  15. I don't consider myself a Judas. I was raised in an entirely secular household.

    The very few times I went to church - with my essentially non-religious grandmother - I was amazed, even at age eight, by the inanity and fabulising required to sincerely profess belief. This was a very straight down the line Church of England church - no speaking in tongues or other nonsense! I knew even then that there were no gods.

    I had the usual childish doubts and hopes that there was a god - I didn't like the thoughts of my parents dying and hoped that there was something more. But even at age seven I realised that hopes don't always, or even often, dictate how reality will play out.

  16. PS Judas is unfairly maligned. He was acting out prophecy straight from the inerrant God. Hence had had no free will whatsoever.

    He had as much choice to avoid "betraying" Jesus as he had in being born.

  17. I identify with Alphgeek.

    Even though I was raised in a Catholic home, nobody minded too much that I was very suspect about that blood/wine, bread/body thing when I was twelve years old.

    My Mother will admit that she was pissed at her little skeptic because he even refused to believe in santa. But I still helped her perpetuate the myth with my younger sisters. They were my first psychology lab.

  18. Jean,

    How've you been?

    Thanks for asking expatmatt. Had a baby five weeks ago so no longer have time to blog as I used to. As a submissive full time housewife I have to make sure the house is always clean, food is on the table for my husband when he comes home, and the kids are well looked after before I can even think of going on the net! Not that easy.....

  19. This comment has been removed by the author.

  20. Ow, Jean, that sounds like a lot of work.

    I actually wouldn't want to live with a submissive wife, because I believe in "democractic relationships", but that's just me. And my opinion doesn't count for much, since I don't have too much (read: any) experience in the relationships department anyway. If it makes you happy!

    Big Congrats on the baby, by the way!

  21. Big Congrats on the baby, by the way!

    I agree - congratulations. I like the new avatar as well.

  22. Jean - a little boy, or little girl?

    I hope you and the family are doing well. Submissive mothers need as much help and as many hugs as any other!


  23. I'm baptized Lutheran but stopped believing in this shit when I was seven.

  24. Thanx to all who wished me well, that is really sweet.

    "I hope you and the family are doing well. Submissive mothers need as much help and as many hugs as any other!"

    Aww Stew how nice of you, and so true hey. Its a little boy. If you understand Shona at all, his name is Kunashe.

  25. I just don't get it. Is Ray suggesting that Judas followed Jesus around for all those years, witnessing miracles left, right and centre and STILL wasn't convinced of His divinity?

    Truer words were never spoken.
    If Jesus was God on earth how could so many people at the time not recognize it?

    When I was a child I thought all those biblical people who denied Christ were awful. How could they not know?! He had a HALO for God's sake! They SAW him go up in the sky on a cloud! How much more proof do you need?

    Wouldn't you think that if Jesus were God he would have made a much bigger impact on people?

  26. Kunashe means "God is" or "God Exists" or "There is God"

    Don't everyone get freaked out now, it's the norm in Zimbabwe to give names that have meaning. I had friends called Tendai (thankfull) and Batsirai (help) Farai (rejoice) and Siyabonga (thank the Lord) tho that last one was a different language - Ndebele

  27. There's no freaking out needed. Jean and her husband could name their child George W Bush and I'd still wish them the best.


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