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Sunday, October 5, 2008

When Fundamentalism becomes Criminal

I didn't want to bump any previous posts tonight but I had to make you guys aware that one of the lurkers that comment here sometimes has admitted on his blog that he has almost starved his wife to death. What's worse is that she suffers from Lupus and has had tumors that recently came back.

He then goes on to state that he "thinks" the tumors went away during this "fast" in his Post "40 Day Fast." His wife's body is totally stressed and he is starving her to death. Here we see it happening right before our eyes.

"As mysterious as the tumors were to us, the symptoms returned again recently. We feared it was coming back right after our 4th child, she was getting pretty shook up about it. This time we decided to do a 40 day fast and keep in prayer to stop the growth and hope for a miracle from God.Well, it appears we got our wish and the tumor disappeared with no more signs during the fast (headaches, blurred vision, sinus troubles ...) so we feel our prayers have been answered. We were attacked by the devil in many other areas of our lives and we came through it quite humbled. Our bodies even started to reject water on day 34 and we were vomiting green bile the last two days. I felt like that exorcist girl towards the end and that is what prompted the early stopping point. We listened to our bodies and stopped when it was time.Both our bodies were getting too stressed to handle our work load we had, so on day 36 we had the Lord's supper as our first meal and began the reintroduction of food again.

There you have it. Here we have a person in our midst that is Out. Of. Touch. With. Reality.

Symptoms range, but even a healthy person in their twenties could go into cardiac arrest or kidney failure after 21 days of this kind of fast. The only hope I have is that Dan is one of these zealous fanatics that will relate an anecdotal, yet false event to try to show he is right in his indefensible world view. He has not a clue of the stress on the body, and more importantly the brain, he admits he is hallucinating. That is exactly how Shamans, priests, Paul, and all kind of God-heads induced their Visions.

This makes me very sad.

Addendum a little while later:

After thinking about this a couple minutes I am going to assume that this "DAN," is a Poe. I have been bouncing off of him for a while now and some of his reponses to negative comments he recieved have been so well crafted, it looked like the resposes were very contrived, as to mimick what a bat shit crazy fundy would say. I do hope that is the case here.




35 comments:

  1. I hope he's a Poe too! Otherwise he is one sick bastard!!

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  3. Sorry my first comment appeared twice!!

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  4. No, Dan isn't a Poe. There are a number of reasons for this conclusion, but the major one is that he is very detailed about his personal life.

    I like Dan: he's easier on the mind and much more civil than Ray, though he belongs to the same brand of insanity.

    It is a shame that he believes that this is a good, let alone healthy, thing to do to himself and his family, but there is nothing I can do about it, and I hope he is at least smart enough to consult medical practitioners about it.

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  5. If Dan is a Poe, he is an excellent Poe.

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  6. Rufus,
    You said, "If Dan is a Poe, he is an excellent Poe."

    Ruf,
    I'm sayin that I think he is an excellent Poe. Maybe I am getting paranoid, but that doesn't mean that they are not out to get me. Hehe.

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  7. Quasar,

    Your comment leaves me with more questions than answers.

    OK, you "like" Dan. That doesn't answer any questions.

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  8. Oh, and to correct a slight error: Dan's mother had Lupus, his wife had the brain tumor.

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  9. OK, you "like" Dan. That doesn't answer any questions.

    No, it's just a statement of fact. I like Dan: he's a nice person. Zilch (over on Dan's blog) said: "I don't really care what you believe: it's how you behave that's important to me. And now that I feel that I know you a little, your well-being, and that of your family, is also important to me."

    As I said, though, I don't approve of what he is doing.

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  10. Quasar,

    OK and very well. Your points are taken and considered.

    Thanks,
    dale

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  11. I can't imagine doing a forty day fast. The ridiculous aspect of the post makes me think he's a Poe, but his other posts make me think he's for real. Hopefully, the former is true.

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  12. Quasar,
    You said,
    "Oh, and to correct a slight error: Dan's mother had Lupus, his wife had the brain tumor."

    On looking back at the posts, I stand corrected. Of course that is a moot point because it does not change the premise, or the outcome of the argument.

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  13. Mark,

    I agree, we are faced with an enigma. If the fundies don't get ya, the Poes will!

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  14. Dan the Debunker does have the best avatar in the world though. It gives me a good laugh each time I see it.

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  16. I've read that post on his blog, and I'm sorry to say I really doubt he's a Poe. My dad goes to a pretty fundie church, and 40 day fasts or at least attempts at them aren't all that rare. There's a lot of anti-science floating around the Christian community regarding them, but also many 40-day fasts are fruit/vegetable juice fasts, the water-only ones are more rare. The logic is that Jesus fasted 40 days and came out OK, so they can too since Jesus was "fully human." I agree that it is scary and dangerous, but unfortunately it's also true.

    The deleted comment is mine, sorry I was working on another blog I moderate and forgot which name I was logged in under. :0

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  17. Speaking as a Poe (@Rays @Least) myself, to assume that something is too contrived to be real is a bit of a mistake. Honestly, I've tried, goodness knows I have, to just plain come up with the most ridiculous things to say, the most offensive ideas that have some "basis" in Ray's kind of Jesus fetish, only to have someone else say, with all sincerity, the exact same batshit thing. These people, I submit, belong to a belief system that is utterly impossible to exaggerate to any extent that they will not agree with. I hate to say, but in all likelihood, he's serious

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  18. Whatever he is doing, if he doesn't stop I at least hope he doesn't make his kids join in. Right now I'm having horrible flashbacks of the christian scientists (the ones who don't believe in medical care) stories I've heard.

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  19. Not sure if he's a Poe, but on the assumption that he's not, may I just remark on what a criminally stupid cunt he is?

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  20. It's not so much the stupidity and self-deceiving gullibility of such people that aggravates me. What concerns me is that others will pick up such stories, spread them around, adapt them gradually, and through this perverse telephone game they become real accounts of witnessed miracles to convince even more people. If after all nothing remarkable or even something very negative happens to the original person, that will be swept under the carpet, forgotten or blocked out by all but the closest family members. Incredible stories travel faster than any other, even than the most thorough discrediting or debunking ever can. This account in itself is enough to confirm that people follow even the most ludicrous and dangerous examples in service to superstition.

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  21. kelley r.,

    Shit. You're right. I had a post about this a few months ago. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I got a tract in the mail with advice on how to beat it. A vegetable juice fast is one of the suggestions I remember from it.

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  22. Why do you feel Dan a.) forced his wife to 'starve' herself to death and b.)is out of touch with reality?

    He also stated in his post that he and his family moved to Ca. to be close to the best doctor to treat his wife's illness.

    I agree that the type of people that you describe do exist. I agree that some women/wives become overly dependent on their husbands to the point that they do whatever is forced upon them (we all probably know the 'profile' of a battered wife).

    Perhaps you've got more evidence then I do on this but if you don't, I don't think it's fair that you make this generalization.

    But, it's your blog. I'm just a visitor. Hopefully you won't consider me a lurker as well.

    - laof.

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  23. Living,
    You asked:
    " LivingAsOneFreed said...
    Why do you feel Dan a.) forced his wife to 'starve' herself to death and b.)is out of touch with reality?"
    a- I did say, "he is starving her to death." It would have been better if I had said, "He is allowing her to starve herself to death. Of course we don't know if she is willfully doiung this or doing it because he is telling her it is the best thing, but I can tell you that my brother in law is a neuro surgeon and told me that fasting (especially someone in ill health) with only water until the person is puking bile and the body is not accepting water is very dangerous.
    The reason for the symptoms of the fast is the fact that the person is dying.


    I don't know why they did not go back to the doctor when the tumors came back or even how they knew the tumors came back (he did mention symptoms.)

    b- It is my opinion that

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  24. laof,

    He may moved there with the intent to go to that doctor, but from his post: they moved there, got some treatment, and now the cancer was returning. He gives God the credit for bringing them there when I doubt that is the case. A referral by another doctor is not the hand of Providence.

    Rather than go back to the doctor again, this bone-headed move happened. Given the nature of cancer and presumably being a Christian herself, she would be weakened from the disease and willingly believe the same thing as her husband.

    After a few days of fasting, your body will break down fats. Acetaminophen is released when this happens and this can poison you! Liver failure is a high possibility from this. And what is one of the symptoms of liver failure? Vomiting up green bile.

    I really hope this is a Poe. I'm worried over the fact that this is doing harm to someone already in pain.

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  25. .......it is my opinion that Dan is out of touch with reality for allowing his wife to follow this dangerous practice.

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  26. I admit that a 40-day fast is something I would never want to do. I love my potato chips, dip and Taco Bell too much.

    But... I just am looking for the evidence that the woman is doing this against her will.

    Being married, there are many times I 'chose' to be on a diet because my wife was. Mis'ry loves company.

    I'm still not saying you're wrong; I just don't see the evidence to support it. Perhaps some of you know Dan personally or at least better than I - that is, beyond his blog and posts to other blogs.

    Otherwise, I'd have to think you're making generalizations, that's all.

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  27. Living,

    You said,
    "But... I just am looking for the evidence that the woman is doing this against her will."

    That statement is totally disengenuous. I never inferred anything other than she might be influenced by her husband since he is in total agreement with this decision.

    It is obvious that as a husband, a person would not agree with this course of action.

    Do you promote starving people with brain tumors?

    How about drinking poison and handling snakes?

    Hmmmmm?

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  28. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  29. Froggie said:

    "That statement is totally disengenuous. I never inferred anything other than she might be influenced by her husband since he is in total agreement with this decision."

    My statement was just that we don't know what Dan's wife thought.

    I agreed that some women fit the profile similar to that of battered women - they do what their husbands say even though they are in an abusive relationship.

    I think your question about snakehandling and drinking poison are uncalled for. I didn't say that. Grow up.

    I'm just asking for proof that the woman is doing this against her will. For someone who demands evidence on other subjects, you have none for this.

    ...keeping in the spirit of debate.

    :-)

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  30. Laof,

    First of all, don't tell me what I can say and not say. That might work with your family but not here. I'll say whatever the fuck I want to.

    You said,
    "I think your question about snakehandling and drinking poison are uncalled for. I didn't say that. Grow up."

    You are totally wrong. It is perfectly acceptable in debate or argument to make an analogy to show the point.

    Starving a women with a tumor is precisely equal to having her handle snakes or drink poison.

    Next you say,
    "I'm just asking for proof that the woman is doing this against her will."

    I never said that she is doing this against her will. I am merely pointing out that Dan is in favor of it which makes him a moron in my book.
    A little search found that the source of his explanation of the fast is a freaking Chiropracter that practices alternat medice. "alternate" = FAKE. No clinical testing. No evidence it works.

    This is absolutely absurd to be arguing this. If something would have happened or does happen to his wife as a result of this fasting, he is a party to it and guilty of a crime, in my opinion.

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  31. Froggie said:

    "This is absolutely absurd to be arguing this. If something would have happened or does happen to his wife as a result of this fasting, he is a party to it and guilty of a crime, in my opinion."

    I agree with you on both points.

    But your comment:

    "Do you promote starving people with brain tumors?"

    Followed by:

    "How about drinking poison and handling snakes?"

    ...did lead me to think you were asking me the question, not citing an analogy.

    Ok, I'll take the hit for misunderstanding.

    BTW, I said that it was uncalled for. Doesn't mean you can't say it.

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  32. I tried my very best to respond to your post HERE

    Sent with love.

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  33. For the record, I believe Dan's sincere. I don't agree with much of what he says/thinks, but on the other hand he's shown the ability to accept when he's wrong, and to occasionally empathize with the people who criticize him.

    I'm not suggesting others should like him, only that I've enjoyed talking with him in the past. He's much less of a brick wall than Ray is.

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  34. 1 Peter 3:16 "Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ."

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