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Saturday, October 4, 2008

Challenge to Ray & His Supporters.

Name a time in the past 2000 years when people weren't claiming to be great spiritual leaders, Christians weren't persecuted, there was no war and unrest, there were no earthquakes, there wasn't a "rise in lawbreaking," famine didn't exist, diseases didn't exist, the sun and moon didn't darken at times, and there wasn't a lack of "sincere love."

Can you name a single time in human history when any of these didn't happen?

Also, if you're certain the world will end soon, will that mean the Bible is falsified if the world doesn't end in... oh... 10 years or so?

On a side note, how do stars fall from the sky?


  1. On a side note, how do stars fall from the sky?

    Like I showed before: With 200,000 times the speed of light.
    Another question is: Where do they fall to? The mass of the Milky Way is estimated with about a trillion times the mass of the sun, that's nothing that you just sweep under the carpet that easily.

  2. Directionality in space is relative, so falling is a rather inappropriate term for the mass migration of stars.

  3. Wait a minute, all the stars in the Milky Way are falling toward the center (the spiral arms orbit). So the stars ARE falling, and they always have!

  4. But they are supposed to fall from the sky.

    In other words, from the sky to... ummm... Earth? Yeah, never mind.

  5. I guess having them move in a way that it is seen from Temple Mount in Jerusalem as if they are moving towards the horizon could count as falling in a biblical sense...

  6. But I guess it's best to keep in mind that the primitive goat-fuckers who wrote those texts still believed that the stars are little lights fixed to the firmament to cheer up the people.

  7. So maybe Earth will speed up or get knocked on its axis?

  8. If earth would get knocked up the axis it still wouldn't look like falling stars from Jerusalem. Since just have of the stars would fall but another half would rise.

  9. If there are as many stars as predicted, shouldn't the night sky be ablaze with starlight?

  10. Ablaze doesn't just get it. Trillions of suns wouldn't just be ablaze the light would vaporize our planet.
    Would vaporize because what would happened doesn't really get what is normally understood as 'vaporized'. There is another not commonly known effect that would come to show - radiation pressure. An electromagnetic wave that hits an object causes pressure. Currently each square meter of the earth, if exposed to the sun, experiences a radiation pressure of about 4.6 µPa. With a trillion stars shining on earth that would make 46 bar radiation pressure. (A pressure that is equal to the one 450 m deep in the sea). Which means that earth would turn into a superheated ball of vaporized gas, that's tightly pressed together.
    And to avoid misunderstanding, not nice gases like oxygen or nitrogen - also gaseous silicon, carbon, aluminum or iron.

  11. This verses, Mark 13:25 seems to point at Christ's second coming, to judge the world; the disciples, in their question, had confused the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world (Mt. 24:3), which was built upon a mistake, as if the temple must need to stand as long as the world stands; this mistake Christ rectifies, and shows that the end of the world in those days, those other days you enquire about, the day of Christ's coming, and the day of judgment, shall be after that tribulation, and not coincident with it. Let those who live to see the Jewish nation destroyed, take heed of thinking that, because the Son of man doth not visibly come in the clouds then, he will never so come; no, he will come after that. And here he foretels..

    from Mathew Henry's commentary.

  12. So, Freed, you disagree with Ray on this one?

  13. I believe stars falling is still future...and I don't believe Ray's post made that clear.

  14. I'm thinking shooting stars or comets are considered falling stars.

    I do want to go back to when I said stars falling is future. That's only in the context of end time prophecies.

    The stars in the sky are a visible word picture of the progression of God's revelation of Jesus. There were so many examples I couldn't decide which ones to list.

    Cosmic signs are only one part of the evidence that indicates we are in the time of the end, so if comets and pieces of them begin to increase in appearance such as hurricanes and tornadoes have increased then I would say that would be your answer.

  15. freed has a good point that a massive meteor shower could fit the prophesy of "stars falling"

    I know we could get hissy about literalism but I'm prepared to cut some slack here.

    It still remains that there have been big meteor showers in the past that have been recorded, and that scared the shite out of people at the time, but did not herald the end of the world.

  16. Stew said...

    It still remains that there have been big meteor showers in the past that have been recorded, and that scared the shite out of people at the time, but did not herald the end of the world.

    Very true. I had read a story that in July, 1994, a comet known as the Shoemaker-Levi comet broke into 21 pieces and bombarded Jupiter for 7 straight days, causing explosions much larger and more powerful than the WWII nuclear bombs dropped on Japan.

    Hebrew researchers say, according to 'tradition', when the planet Jupiter is hit in the heavens it is a sign of the end of the world. Jupiter was considered to be the planet representing King David.

    Throughout secular history, comets have been considered a bad omen and their appearance has been interpretted as an omen of future trouble.

  17. Dear Freed:

    Meteors aren't stars. Even the stupid goat-herders in ancient Judea could have known this if they would have asked their astrologers.

    Those astrologers who gazed into the night to tell the future already recognised that despite the fact that there are "falling stars" (as they are called in English) there was never any of the major fixed stars missing.

    The English version of the Bible says:
    Matt 24: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
    The Spanish version says
    Matt 24: »Inmediatamente después de la tribulación de aquellos días, »“se oscurecerá el sol y no brillará más la luna; las estrellas caerán del cielo y los cuerpos celestes serán sacudidos
    The French version says:
    Matt 24: Immédiatement après ces jours de détresse, le soleil s'obscurcira, la lune perdra sa clarté, les étoiles tomberont du ciel, les puissances célestes seront ébranlées
    The German version say:
    Matt 24: Sofort nach den Tagen der großen Not wird sich die Sonne verfinstern und der Mond wird nicht mehr scheinen; die Sterne werden vom Himmel fallen und die Kräfte des Himmels werden erschüttert werden.

    The stars will fall from the skys. This verse is not talking about "falling stars" since then at least one German translation would have used the word "Sternschnuppen". The bible says there what it say >The stars will fall from the heavens<

    And if they really move with superluminal velocity the 'powers of the heavens' will really be shaken. At least every single physical law that we know will be violated.


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