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Thursday, December 4, 2008

Am I Being a Big Cry-Baby?

As a number of you may know, I frequent the blog of our good prophet Dani'El and am, for the most part, quite happy to chat away with him and discuss whatever it is he happens to be blogging about (militant homosexuals, destruction of San Fran, angel armies, Satan in a German army uniform, whatever).

Recently he put up a post entitled:

War in 2009?

This is based on Israeli army intelligence statements by Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin and is a fair point for discussion. Obviously this topic also ties in with Dani'El's 'knowledge' of the impending End Times and associated word-wide events (the destruction of Damascus being one event).

I made a comment that it seemed to me as if fundamentalist Christians were, sort of, looking forward to what essentially amounts to genocide. There are 10 million people in the Damascus area and I just find it difficult to reconcile the absolute nature of the 'don't murder people' commandment with the massacre of 10 million men, women and children.


Dani'El responded in a way that made me think that he was treating these potential deaths in a very subjective way - moral relativism and all that;

"There are a lot of "innocent" Jews in Israel, and the vast majority in Damascus would celebrate if everyone of them were dead."

As if that would excuse the act. He further justified it with;

"And the dest[ruction] of Damascus will probably come in response to something like a chem[ical] weapons attack on an Israeli city."

[emphasis mine]

I then told him to stop validating genocide and he came back with the following (abridged without quote-mining, I hope. Check it out yourself at the thread if you want the whole story);

"Expat,
You surprise me on this one.
Validate genocide?
Are you kidding?

That moral equavalancy garbage doesnt go too far with me Expat.

Was it genocide to attack the Germans of the third reich?...

...That's typical turnspeak that comes from the muslim world.

I didn't expect it from you."


"If Al Qaeda set off a dirty bomb in London that killed your family (It could happen soon) no doubt you would want Bin Laden knighted by the Queen, or consider it Islamophobia or genocide to bomb the terrorist camps in Pakistan."

[emphasis mine]
I don't know about you. But suggesting, no matter how facetiously, that someone would want their family's murderer to receive the highest honour in the land is over the line. I told him as much by saying; "Seriously though, retract that statement please; it does you no favours to make statements like that." I repeated this when he did not immediately retract the statement and closed by telling him that I wouldn't be posting at his blog until he did.

Is this me being a cry-baby? I think I'm too close to it to tell, so I'm open to scrutiny from my peers - let me know.


He has since stated:

"And my statement about knighting Bin Laden was clearly facetious. Sarcasm. Sorry if you missed it.
And I retract it if it offends you."


Dani'El,

If you feel like I am misrepresenting our conversation, please feel free to correct me.

Thanks guys and sorry for the long rant!

Cheers,

31 comments:

  1. Wow, that Dani'el guy is craxy.
    Bit I understand if Israel had to fight back for self-defense.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I can't tell either, EPM.

    If I had to guess, it's a bit of both: you're doing a wee bit of crying while you're making a good point. I personally wouldn't expect much if I asked for an apology from some anonymous n00b on the internetz; the only motivation for apologizing would be "intellectual integrity" or perhaps "respecting the opponent".

    Both of which are rare to the point of being non-existent :)

    I quietly took a break from Dani'el's blog; it seemed like I was building a rapport with him, but I had to actually ignore most of what he was saying in order to do so. That seemed to me to be disingenuous (even though I enjoyed our conversations).

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  3. Hey Obsidian,

    I wouldn't call Dani'El 'craxy' as such...

    Have you posted here before? I don't think I've seen you about so, if not; welcome! Tell us a bit about yourself...

    ReplyDelete
  4. To be honest, if something like that happened to my family, no I wouldn't want him knighted but I also wouldn't want all Saudi's killed either. Instead I would seek arrest and judgment by law and peers. Accepting what outcome that brings. Don't talk to me about not knowing what that means, because I have endured through a terrorist attack on my home, the second worst attack in American History. I have seen the trial of those responsible. People calling for blood and the jury not handing out the death penalty to one of them in federal and state court. This was justice.

    He is trying to cop out of a hurtful statement and trying to justify his own hatred. Go back through his posts and look how he delights in the death and torture of the people of San Fransisco and feels that all of it will be justified. This is a sick man and one that needs help.

    Yes I know he reads here and I expect him to respond. There are multiple reasons I don't post at his blog anymore.

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  5. Beams,

    "Instead I would seek arrest and judgment by law and peers."

    I don't think he gets this part.

    Thanks for your thought guys.

    ReplyDelete
  6. You're a cry-baby.

    Grow a thicker skin. Don't take things so personally. 'Man-up'

    Quit yer whingin'

    ReplyDelete
  7. hey, that's proof right there... can't take any criticism, even when you specifically asked for it.

    Loser.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hey, don't take it so personally! Grow some thick skin etc...

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  9. nice comeback. Nothing original unless it's an obscenity?
    :-/

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  10. laof,

    Please point out the 'original' content of the following comment:

    "You're a cry-baby.

    Grow a thicker skin. Don't take things so personally. 'Man-up'

    Quit yer whingin'"

    Because it looks to me like a collection of cliches. It certainly isn't any kind of reasonable criticism, which is what you appear to have credited it as being in your follow-up comment.

    Could it be that you're just trolling and have nothing intelligent to add to the thread?

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  11. I actually took Laof's comments as a joke Matt and well your reply too.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Matt,

    I wouldn't let it get to you. You're very well acquainted with the kind of thing Dani'El comes out with, why should it be a surprise? Considering his dark predictions for California, I try not to take much of it very seriously.

    Also, Obsidian,

    I don't think he's crazy. I think he's deluded. The difference is that his brain is functioning perfectly normally with the information he feeds it. He's allowed himself to be convinced of angels, Satan, and Judgment Day. With that as his foundation, everything else just sort of follows...

    ReplyDelete
  13. EPM,

    I don't know that you are misrepresenting the conversation but surely you know he was being facetious.

    While reading your post I kept wondering when you would get to the part that would make you ask if you were a cry-baby. Are you really that sensitive?

    Just asking.

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  14. My opinion on discussing things with deranged people goes like this:

    The smaller the audience, the less benefit I see from doing it. But, if the audience is big, especially if it contains many "undecided" people, then I will definitely talk with them, just to expose people to the lunacy.

    For me, Dani'el is too small and unknown, so I don't see much of a gain.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Oh, and to clarify:

    For "deranged" I should have said "both people with unfortunate brain chemistry and people who are deluded".

    (I hadn't read FrodoSaves' post yet)

    ReplyDelete
  16. Mate you're dealing with crazy, you gotta be prepared for crazy.

    "never bring a knife to a gun-fight"

    I say have a cup of cement and harden the fuck up.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Expat-
    I suppose I reacted with my facetious comment after your accusation that I was defending genocide.
    Since I am Jewish which do you think was more offensive?

    Should I have demanded a retraction from you?

    If I offended you forgive me.

    And to whomever said I take pleasure or am gleeful about the coming judgment of SF and LA.
    You are quite wrong.

    Because I care so deeply about everybody in my home state, I have gone out and put my life in jeopardy. By sounding the alarm, I have been rewarded with beatings and been spat on, kicked, stuck with dirty needles, even arrested and jailed for 40 days by the very people I am trying to save.

    If I hated them I would keep my mouth shut and say in my heart, "Fine, it that's the way they want it. Let 'em burn."
    But I am compelled to keep going despite the abuse.

    I am in obedience to the Living God's commands to give warning so my conscience is clear.
    I have done my job and will continue to do so until the day I leave the city.

    I have also acheived my goal with all of you whether you think I'm crazy or not.
    You've got the message and will remember it on that day.

    Know this in advance.
    I forgive you, and it is forgotten.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Beams wrote-
    To be honest, if something like that happened to my family, no I wouldn't want him knighted but I also wouldn't want all Saudi's killed either. Instead I would seek arrest and judgment by law and peers. Accepting what outcome that brings.

    That situation does not really apply to the situation between Israel and Syria.
    When Israel nukes Damascus, it will be when they are facing a vicious attack from all sides and from within.
    Thousands of rockets will be pouring in from hezbollocks in Lebanon, and Hamas in Gaza, as Syria pours rockets and shells in from the Golan. At this point if a chem weapons are used?
    Israel will be be facing annihilation and will be forced to make a drastic move to behead the beast that is devouring her.

    It won't be simply tit for tat retaliation.
    Also note, there are reports that Syria has been moving all the means of Govt out of Damascus in the last months.
    At the same time they are massing troops in the Golan and on the border with Lebanon.

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  19. Do you really care about what he thinks? I can understand why you take on Ray - he has a high profile in the fundie's bizarro version of reality - but why do you guys bother with these nickel-and-dime lunatics?

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  20. Yes Dani'el, because warning means you care.

    10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.

    1 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. 2 He prayed to the LORD, "O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live."

    Jonah warned the City of Ninevah and then waited to watch it be destroyed. You are doing the same. You only claim to care at times, then at other times you show your real feelings about how the "wicked" deserve their punishment.

    You can back to political situations all you want. I went off your example but way to move the goal posts, I expect no less from you. By the way is it justice if McVeigh right before going to court confessed and asked to be forgiven, so the court said okay you can go free then? That is the justice of your God.

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  21. If Al Qaeda set off a dirty bomb in London that killed your family

    British cities have been bombed by terrorists since before I was born. If Al Qaeda think they can do better than they are welcome to try.

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  22. EPM said:

    "Could it be that you're just trolling and have nothing intelligent to add to the thread?"

    (and later added the brilliant comment)

    "Thought so."

    1. Yeah, I was trolling. Anything saying I can't?

    2. Add anything intelligent? To a thread started by you? It would be a waste of effort

    3. 'Thought so?' You thought what? That I didn't answer within 5 minutes, so you thought you 'owned' me? Fat chance. I have a life and don't always hang around for most people to add their comments.

    4. You asked for comments about whether you were a cry-baby. I commented on it. You got what you asked for. Or are you just spouting rhoeteric?

    5. Yeah, the 'thick skin' comment has been made before, but a cliche? Everybody uses cliches in their everyday language. In fact let me give you this fact - there isn't a word or phrase on this blog that hasn't been used by someone at sometime in the past in all history. Does that make everything a cliche?
    BTW, I should have credited the source - I was paraphrasing Whateverman on an earlier post about 'intolerance'.

    And finally, :

    "BeamStalk said...
    I actually took Laof's comments as a joke Matt.."

    Yes, we have a winner......

    ReplyDelete
  23. Cheers for the responses guys, much appreciated. Where to start?...


    Beams,

    My comment was less of a joke and more about making a point of showing how easy it is to illicit a response from someone with a simple comment on a blog forum. LAOF has been kind enough to demonstrate this quite nicely by reacting (see above) to a couple of meaningless jabs. The point being that if they react like that to a couple of little jabs - why is it an overreaction to ask for a retraction when someone starts talking about your family dying?

    Speaking of which. I should point out that my family and I were living in London during the attacks on the city in 2005. We couldn't get in touch with sister for a couple of hours and feared the worst.
    So unless you're the kind of person that would ask a New York City Firefighter if they'd give Bin Laden the Purple Heart, I hope you can understand why I didn't take this as a laughing matter.

    Freed, I hope that answers your question.

    Frodo, Nohm, Vagon - points taken and digested; thanks.


    And Dani'El,

    "Expat-
    I suppose I reacted with my facetious comment after your accusation that I was defending genocide.
    Since I am Jewish which do you think was more offensive?"

    You're doing it again! You consistently claim that there is an absolute moral standard, set in place by a God you have been selected by for the most important religious mission since Christ...and yet you keep resorting to these morally relative, highly subjective validations of the things you say; I just don't get it!

    And I didn't say that you were 'defending' genocide, I said you were 'validating' it. Which you are. You have to because it is Biblical prophesy and therefore God's will, so it must be valid, right?

    "Should I have demanded a retraction from you?"

    If it offended you, you could have should have said something (I said please, by the way - it wasn't a 'demand') and I would have given you a full apology.

    "If I offended you forgive me."

    I don't really think that MY forgiveness means anything to you now, does it? There's only one kind of forgiveness that counts, right?

    Perhaps you should pray on the matter? I will certainly think on it.

    In a follow-up post you said you thought of me as a friend. I can't remember a single time when one of my friends has made a facetious comment about my family dying; if they had then I would probably have remembered it - they certainly would.



    Mr Smith,

    I like your style.



    Thanks again guys (all of you), much obliged.

    Cheers,

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  24. Expat,
    Maybe what you don't understand is that it is my family in Israel that is being targeted for genocidal murder.

    And what I am defending is their self defense.

    My family has been murdered by the millions for 2000 years, and now after all that time, we finally have the means to defend ourselves in our own land.

    So to call that validating genocide is deeply offensive to me and there is no need to talk further on it.

    Baruch Hashem,
    Dani' El

    ReplyDelete
  25. ExPatMatt:

    "Speaking of which. I should point out that my family and I were living in London during the attacks on the city in 2005. We couldn't get in touch with sister for a couple of hours and feared the worst. "

    That changes some things. I do not ever intend to have anyone's family in jeopardy, I think some people here already know that.

    For that, I apologize for any insensitivity on my part.

    EPM - your jabs are welcome as far as I'm concerned. Verbal (or more accurately, written) sparring is a hobby of mine. I know my comment about you 'loser-ness' was a weak attempt - I was in a hurry :-)

    I was kidding in my first post, as Beamie accurately stated.

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  26. LAOF,

    I did realize once the thread got going that I hadn't made that - contextually very important - piece of information known.

    As such I had put you in an unfair position of being able to be glib about something without knowing how seriously I was taking it. That was unfair and I apologize for reacting the way I did when I should have just explained why I wasn't treating it as a laughing matter.

    I know that you would never intentionally be insensitive about such issues and that your initial post was a joke.

    I thank you for your apology and I assure you; I will not put you or anyone else in that position again.

    Cheers,

    ReplyDelete
  27. EPM (if you are still following this):

    hey, thanks. More my fault than yours, I believe.

    ReplyDelete

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