If you don't want to read it, the participants were kind enough to summarise their positions in verse and rhyme.
Sye TenB:
The atheist claims he can know
But when asked how this is so
His response is so dense
For he claims 'reason and sense'
Whose validity he cannot show.
Andrew Louis
There once was a man named Sye
Who was really an irrational guy
He began with proof
Was withdraw and aloof
And it turned out it all was a big lie
Posts
Breaking out in verse is perhaps half a step short of speaking in tongues...
ReplyDeleteI'm beginning to think all this presuppositional bullshit is just an elaborate trap to cause indignant thinking people to end up frustrating themselves to death.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how we become so trapped/ beguiled into arguing this.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part the novelty of the Pressup argument wore off fairly quickly for me, and after following the Steven Law and the Maragon threads it seemed like all that could be said, was said.
To be fair, for those that like to get into a stimulating, many faceted philisophical argument, presupp is the way to go!
It seems that "they" have an argument that turns out to be indeterminate, at best, yet they always claim "they won."
They are trolls, plain and simple. They never clarify their own stance nor do they back it up. Instead they continue in their "I know you are but what am I" form ad infinitum. Not worth discussing with because even when you show them the errors of their way they just keep going back to it.
ReplyDeleteSye tries to argue
ReplyDeleteUsing presupp mindlessness
Shame is his reward
It is quite funny to a degree.
ReplyDeleteA week ago blogger Dan didn't have a clue what presuup was, yet now he reponds to every question or statement, "Where do you get the absolute standard of reasoning from which you level the claim of....."
I think it is just another trick in their bag of obfuscation and sophism.
Froggie,
ReplyDeleteDan didn't have a clue what presuup was, yet now he reponds to every question or statement, "Where do you get the absolute standard of reasoning from which you level the claim of....."
Whereas Dani'El at least aims for a certain level of consistency and his posts even contain a degree of what you might call charm, Dan just rabbits on and on and on, continually changing faces. I feel like I'm talking to a chatbot sometimes.
Those thousand post threads arguing presuppositionalism are nothing more than colossal circle-jerks, without any resultant ejaculation.
ReplyDeleteNothing can, or ever will come of them.
word ver = geton
Zilch pwned that thread
ReplyDelete(Sorry Nonmagic'El)
---
Adopting logic,
Sye invalidates his own
system of belief
---
Presupp by itself is crafted very well. At its core, it makes an interesting point: presupposition (of any thing) is presupposition. It takes some effort to reveal the logical inconsistencies, in regards to specific presuppositions.
However, the real reason the thread lasted that long was Sye's dishonesty, not the thing he was trying to be a proponent of.
So, first we're required to show
ReplyDeletehow we know that we know what we know,
and have to have proved,
without proof, proof's approved
to prove knowing that... limericks blow.
I am telling you it is just "I know you are but what am I"
ReplyDeleteIt's a debate that never ends,
ReplyDeleteIt just goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started fighting it
Not knowing what it was,
And Sye continues fighting it
Forever, just because...
It's a debate that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started fighting it
Not knowing what it was,
And Sye continues fighting it
Forever, just because...
It's a debate that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started fighting it
Not knowing what it was,
And Sye continues fighting it
Forever, just because...
It's a debate that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started fighting it
Not knowing what it was,
And Sye continues fighting it
Forever, just because...
It's a debate that never ends,
It just goes on and on, my friends,
Some people started fighting it
Not knowing what it was,
And Sye continues fighting it
Forever, just because...
Frodo,
ReplyDelete"Whereas Dani'El at least aims for a certain level of consistency...."
Amen to that!
I almost wanna throw my laptop through the window when someone makes a very articulate point and Dan responds, "Irellevent!" or Ad Hom!
He's not fooling anybody but himself.
While I'm at it, I've become quite adept at interpreting body language over the years and it is very interesting to me that Dan portrays himself in his pic as this cowering, fearful wimpass cluting a bible.
Shaggy,
ReplyDeleteSung to the tune of "Welcome Back my friends to the show that never ends" by Emerson, Lake and Palmer?
Album-
"Brain Salad Surgery" One of my all time favs
Another song from that album I love "Paradise" or Rockin in Paradise"
That should be our anthem here.
They wrote "Paradise" right after the city tore down the old Paradise Theater in Chicago-
ReplyDeleteancient history, and yes, I was there.
"Benny the Bouncer" same album great beat.
ReplyDeleteBenny was a bouncer at the palace of dance
He'd slash your granny's face up
given half of a chance......
I love the limericks and the haiku, but El Shaggy wins hands down with "The Debate That Never Ends". I thought to offer my own entry until I saw that, and drew unnecessary attention to myself by laughing uncontrollably.
ReplyDeleteDick.
--
Stan
(Word verification: unduals)
Re: 9:49 AM
ReplyDeleteTitle = Karnevil
Froggie wrote Album-
ReplyDelete"Brain Salad Surgery" One of my all time favs
/high_five
Five back, bro!
ReplyDeleteI've never really put my 2 cents in about presup before but now I feel the need:
ReplyDeleteIt's bullshit.
Froggie sez:
For the life of me, I cannot understand how we become so trapped/ beguiled into arguing this.
I've never understood why anyone entertained Sye. I think of it as stroking his ego and giving him a mental jerk off by giving him attention. I just can't do it.
No offense to those who do though. We all aren't interested in the same kids of debates, yanno?
But presup goes nowhere over and over and over again.
Froggie also sez:
It is quite funny to a degree.
A week ago blogger Dan didn't have a clue what presuup was, yet now he reponds to every question or statement, "Where do you get the absolute standard of reasoning from which you level the claim of....."
I think people like Dan have no idea who they really are inside, so they mold to the alpha of the group and/or the most complex sounding idea they can find, even if they have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
BF sez:
ReplyDeleteThose thousand post threads arguing presuppositionalism are nothing more than colossal circle-jerks, without any resultant ejaculation.
Nothing can, or ever will come of them.
YES. Exactly.
Froggie sez:
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm at it, I've become quite adept at interpreting body language over the years and it is very interesting to me that Dan portrays himself in his pic as this cowering, fearful wimpass cluting a bible.
You noticed that too, huh? Yeah, I think that pic sums it all up.
Shaggy, that poem was fantastic!
ReplyDeleteAll the poetry/haiku/limerick stuff in this thread is great.
Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression, Part 2
ReplyDeleteWelcome back my friends to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend
Come inside! Come inside!
There behind a glass is a real blade of grass
be careful as you pass.
Move along! Move along!
Come inside, the show's about to start
guaranteed to blow your head apart
Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
The greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth.
You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo.
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll ....
Right before your eyes we pull laughter from the skies
And he laughs until he cries then he dies then he dies
Keith Emerson' work, at its best, is comparable to virtually anything produced by Baroque composers.
I was such a huge fan in highschool and college. I haave to say, however...
ReplyDeleteI went to see them live at Great Woods here in MA, before the Lollapalooza show in which the concert-goers ripped down and burned the fences in a great Lord Of The Flies orgy of excess
Heh - a bit of memorabilia for those who know what I'm talking about.
Back on topic, I saw them when they released the album with Mars, God of War on it. This group was, unfortunately, Emerson Lake and Powell - not the power trio I had grown up on.
As much as I liked Cozy Powell's drumming, he was a bit too "rock and roll" to to replace Carl Palmer. He didn't blend in well, and the show wasn't that great. It was disappointing.
On the subject of drums, Buddy Rich once went to see Carl Palmer live in concert with ELP, and walked out of the show after 20 minutes. Couldn't understand the huge drumset and the guy not knowing how to use it
:)
maybe we could create a perpetuum mobile using presuppositionalism?
ReplyDeleteNonmagic'el wrote I think people like Dan have no idea who they really are inside, so they mold to the alpha of the group and/or the most complex sounding idea they can find, even if they have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
ReplyDeleteThat could be true; I just have a hard time understanding how a person could not know themselves (though I've seen it before)
I've always suspected such people are self-loathers; they know who they are, and don't like it.
Presuppositions
ReplyDeleteThe new apologetics
Just faith in disguise
Type Display Name Here's "the premise contained the conclusion" limerick is probably the best because it points out what's wrong with Sye's way of thinking.
ReplyDeleteThe thousand post thread is filled with weird (non-presup) stuff.
Like a young teenage girl will debate Sye on radio if he donates money to an atheist foundation.
Sye says he'll mail his wallet to a guy who said he is homeless (TDNH). But Sye backs out when TDNH wouldn't give Sye his home phone number. (?!)
Froggie,
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm at it, I've become quite adept at interpreting body language over the years and it is very interesting to me that Dan portrays himself in his pic as this cowering, fearful wimpass cluting a bible.
Ad hom!
Hahaha. I completely lost all respect for him when he admitted to me that he "wore his circular logic like a halo" and that there was nothing wrong with that. I think at that point you have to realize you've done all you can do, and just hope people reading the comments think "yikes, I don't wanna be that guy."
My point in continuing to post there is to do one of several things:
ReplyDelete1) To get Dan to realize that if he's going to justify being illogical, he should be consistent about it. Have him stop trying to make logical arguments (regardless of whether they fail or succeed), and admit that his faith is the only thing that matters
2) Understand that if he can justify being illogical, then to the people he's trying to convince, he's going to appear indistinguishable from a crazy person. Thus, he will be extremely unsuccessful
Wem,
ReplyDeletehe's going to appear indistinguishable from a crazy person
I'll get the popcorn.
....he's going to appear indistinguishable from a crazy person.
ReplyDeleteI can't tell his blog from something the schizo homeless guy on the corner would write anyway. I don't know how much more insane Dan could possibly get.
Bet we'll find out, though!