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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Absolute Truth

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14 comments:

  1. AnonymousDecember 10, 2008 at 11:37 PM

    This was a mistake with the HTML or something... funny though. I'll try again.

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  2. MrFreeThinkerDecember 10, 2008 at 11:58 PM

    Not necessarily. For it to be absolute it does not mean people believe it. For example, I think murdering people for fun is absolutely wrong, regardless of hat Jeffrey Dahmer believed.
    2+2=4 (in base 10) no matter what people believe

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  3. AnonymousDecember 11, 2008 at 12:01 AM

    Yes but you subjectively thought it was right.

    He subjectively thought it was wrong.

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  4. AnonymousDecember 11, 2008 at 12:09 AM

    Therefore your absolute is entirely personal.

    Your absolute extends as far as yourself.

    Therefore it cannot be absolutely true.

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  5. AnonymousDecember 11, 2008 at 12:22 AM

    "2+2=4"

    That can only be true if you understand mathematics.

    A one year old cannot believe that to be true, because a one year old doesn't know that it's true.

    Therefore it is an incredibly widely shared, subjective truth.

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  6. Gorth SatanaDecember 11, 2008 at 12:41 AM

    I think murdering people for fun is absolutely wrong

    "for fun"? What about just plain murder?
    MrFreeThinker, is lying absolutely wrong?

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  7. Gorth SatanaDecember 11, 2008 at 12:50 AM

    Oh! The "for fun" part is so I don't ask you if it's morally wrong to murder a man to save fifty. Gotcha.

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  8. MaragonDecember 11, 2008 at 12:56 AM

    "MrFreeThinker, is lying absolutely wrong?"

    This.

    Ever notice how presupps will never apply their absolute standards to anything other than the most extreme cases in a transparent and childish attempt to paint anyone who disgrees with their worldview as morally deficient?

    Example:

    Hitler and Dahmer raping and eating babies while nuking the planet and kicking puppies is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!11!!!!1!1111!!!

    Wow, you sure proved something there, pal - namely that your argument is so devoid of any substance that it can't stand any actual scrutiny.

    Is lying absolutely wrong?
    WHAT IF A LIE WOULD PREVENT HITLER AND DAHMER FROM RAPING AND EATING BABIES WHILE NUKING THE WORLD AND KICKING PUPPIES?

    Is stealing absolutely wrong?
    Even if a family is starving to death and must steal in order to not die?

    Is cannibalism absolutely wrong? What if it was the only option for survival?

    Is abortion absolutely wrong?
    Even to save the life of a mother who will die from complications if she doesn't receive this procedure?

    The world isn't as black and white as you'd like to pretend it is. This is seriously like talking to a toddler - there are more options in the world than ABSOLUTE YES and ABSOLUTE NO - it's not our fault that you're not capable of conceiving of them.

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  9. WhatevermanDecember 11, 2008 at 7:50 AM

    The fact that fundamentalist morality can be shown to be NOT absolute is the reason why presupps seek to sneak it in the back door.

    Heh...

    In fact, the scientific method is extremely successful because nothing is absolute. It provides a framework from within which we may make cautious assumptions about the nature of reality - and either proceed from there, or find the errors, correct them and then try again.

    Physics itself has shown that "absoluteness" is a fiction.

    Wake up - get with the picture. Life is complicated and colored in shades of gray, not black and white. Start participating rather than banging your head against reality and lamenting that it doesn't adhere to your opinion.

    EndRant();

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  10. MrFreeThinkerDecember 11, 2008 at 11:26 AM

    [In fact, the scientific method is extremely successful because nothing is absolute.]
    is this absolutely true? I hate having to point out how many truth claims people make here?

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  11. AnonymousDecember 11, 2008 at 2:21 PM

    MFF:

    Prove it. Prove that truth is absolute.

    Is it absolutely true that God considers the invisible purple man on the moon to be a sinner?

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  12. WhatevermanDecember 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM

    I hate having to point out how many truth claims people make here?"

    By what standard of absolute truth do you determine that such things need to be pointed out?

    ---

    MFT, I've been exceedingly courteous up to this point, but I think that time may be nearing an end.

    Demonstrate that absolutes exist, and that they are required for "knowledge", and then we can proceed. Beat off while asking and endless series of questions, and I'll just conclude you're a dumbfuck.

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  13. MrFreeThinkerDecember 12, 2008 at 10:24 AM

    [By what standard of absolute truth do you determine that such things need to be pointed out?]
    The standard revealed to me by God. Your turn to account.

    But I think Sye has pointed out the problems with denying absolute truth. It's self-refuting. Is it absolutely true that there are no absolutes?

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  14. MaragonDecember 12, 2008 at 10:39 AM

    "The standard revealed to me by God. Your turn to account."

    And was that standard revealed to you in the Bible? The same bible that you claim is the inerrant work of a deity simply because it says that it is? Oh, right - therefore anything you say fails.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    "But I think Sye has pointed out the problems with denying absolute truth. It's self-refuting. Is it absolutely true that there are no absolutes?"

    And I think I've pointed out your problem with jerking off over semantics like a fucking tool.
    Explain and provide evidence that there is a tangible difference between something being TRUE and ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

    Any time now, kid.

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