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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

For absolute truth to exist there must be one premise that everybody has believed to be true since the dawn of time.

No such premise exists.

If everybody believed that no such premise existed, then there would be only one absolute truth.

The only absolute truth would be that there is no absolute truth.

47 comments:

  1. The only absolute truth would be that there is no absolute truth.

    Oxymoron

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  2. "Oxymoron"

    Oh, you caught that, did you?

    Here's a cookie.

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  3. "The only absolute truth would be that there is no absolute truth."

    More of a paradox really. Can anyone name an absolute truth? Until that point, we don't have to worry about the paradox.

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  4. I absolutely love you Dani :)

    Let's have kids and wreck their heads entirely.

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  5. You'd have to meet my heavenly Father first.

    He's pretty strict about marrying out.
    Oh yeah, You're a bit Jewish aren't ya?

    You'd still have to convert anyway, then it's a deal.

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  6. It'd only be fun if I stay the way I am...

    We could live like a crazy odd couple sitcom, dividing the bedroom in half so as to accomodate our dramatically different worldviews.

    You could leave me cute messages in the steam on the bathroom mirror like "Repent or go to Hell!" and I could play tricks on you like writing "allegedly" before every action everyone performs in the Bible.

    Of course we will resolve our differences in time for tea and a nice documentary.

    Come on Dan, make me your bride.

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  7. It'd only be fun if I stay the way I am...

    I became a lot more fun after I converted, you should try it.

    We could live like a crazy odd couple sitcom, dividing the bedroom in half so as to accomodate our dramatically different worldviews.

    We could harvest the stress to run the fridge and cut down on our power bill.

    You could leave me cute messages in the steam on the bathroom mirror like "Repent or go to Hell!" and I could play tricks on you like writing "allegedly" before every action everyone performs in the Bible.

    I'd have to chasten you, unless you like that sort of thing.
    I don't, so that's a problem there.

    Of course we will resolve our differences in time for tea and a nice documentary.

    Come on Dan, make me your bride.

    That would take grace.
    I'll ask my Abba.

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  8. If I ever convert I'll come to Sodom and find you. All we'll need then is eight more righteous and the man upstairs might not destroy the place (Gen 18:32).

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  9. No time for that Condi,
    (can I call you Condi?)

    Besides, you don't want to mess with me.
    I'm a rebel.

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  10. I nearly died laughing Kelley. Seriously.

    Condi?

    Call me Sarah if you like.

    It seems Dan that our love must be one that dare not speak its name.

    I've got take off now anyway, take care guys x

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  11. And he never.. saw Sarah.......again.







    Until!

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  12. CC and Dani'El - what a riot that would be!

    Can I be the quirky guy that you meet occassionally at the Wal-Mart? Perhaps the one you remember the face of, but neither of you can remember my name... LOL

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  13. Great avatar, Kelley...

    I've been wondering - since absolute truth is supposed to be defined by the Bible, what existed before the Bible was published?

    Word Verification = rancies. Hmmm....

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  14. Actually, i propose that absolute truth exists, but is unattainable.

    Whatever happened throughout time happened whether we know it or not, and while we can try to determine what happened based on available evidence, we will never have all of the evidence, and as such, we will never have the complete absolute truth.

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  15. @ Mudley

    Correct. (imho)

    So it exists hypothetically only. A hypothesis must be testable.

    "Absolte truth exists."

    "God exists."

    "A tiny invisible purple man lives in a rock on the moon."

    If untestable hypotheses were allowed as premises in argument, breathtakingly idiotic arguments would have to be accepted.

    Case in point: the presupps.

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  16. @ LAOF, you can be our easygoing next door neighbour, every time you walk through our front door you can go:

    "Oh no, what happened now?"

    And riotous studio laughter, whistling and applause will follow.

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  17. "Oh no, what happened now?"

    Oh NO! What happened NOW?!?"

    (practicing my lines)

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  18. mudley:
    "Actually, i propose that absolute truth exists, but is unattainable."

    I propose absolute truth exists, but we have too limited of knowledge to prove its existence beyond a doubt.

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  19. Proving its existence and proving its definition are two separate things in my opinion.

    I think that saying that truth exists, but absolute truth does not, assumes that there are multiple truths for any event.

    For any event, there is only one truth to that event, however there may be different points of view which lead to apparent individual determinations of the truth, but whether or not they reconcile with the actual truth is indeterminable, but can be inferred through examination of evidence.

    Science's goal is to find as much truth as possible, and to determine which truth is "truer" than the previous truth. This can be seen in overturning of theories in light of new data. This seems to suggest that science views that there is one absolute truth to strive for.

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  20. [Actually, i propose that absolute truth exists, but is unattainable.]
    Is it absolutely true that absolute truth is unattainable, or only partially true?

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  21. Mr Free Thinker: "Is it absolutely true that absolute truth is unattainable, or only partially true?"

    Is it absolutely true that the invisible purple man on the moon does not exist?

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  22. MFF

    You have to prove absolute truth before asking whether somethinbg is absolutely true.

    If absolute truth cannot be proved, it cannot be used in an argument.

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  23. [Is it absolutely true that the invisible purple man on the moon does not exist? ]
    Yes it is because the laws of logic are absolute and something cannot be invisible and purple at the same time or in the same sense(as per the law of non-contradiction).
    everyone else here who denied absolutes should have no problem with that man's existence though.

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  24. Whateverman!

    I answered your question about my privatized (like Social Security?) blog on another post, but I think it got buried too fast.

    It's near the bottom of these comments.

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  25. MrFreeThinker said...

    Is it absolutely true that absolute truth is unattainable, or only partially true?


    This is unknown, but from my experience truth is absolute.

    However, whether or not we succeed in finding the truth can not be determined absolutely without an infinite amount of data. We can only extrapolate as close to the truth as the available data allows.

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  26. MFF:

    Please demonstrate that the laws of logic are absolute.

    So infra-red and ulta-violet don't exist because we can't see them?

    Prove that the invisible purple man cannot exist.

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  27. Mr Free Thinker: "Is it absolutely true that absolute truth is unattainable, or only partially true?"

    CwC; Is it absolutely true that the invisible purple man on the moon does not exist?

    Dani' El- I think you're confusing absolute truth with omniscience, dear.

    Enter LAOF: "Oh no! What happened now!"

    (Canned laughter)

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  28. lol@ Dan I'm sure Fox would commission us in a split second.

    To know that truth is absolute, one has to be omniscient. And if you're going to carry in like this you can do your own ironing.

    (Audience: wooooooooooo! Sassy black lady in audience: "Oh no you didn't!")

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  29. To know for sure requires omniscience, yes, but not to speculate and assume.

    And if speculations and assumptions work logically, then go for it :)

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  30. CwC:To know that truth is absolute, one has to be omniscient. And if you're going to carry in like this you can do your own ironing.

    Dani 'El: Or be made in His image, cupcake. And you can start taking out the trash.
    (Ducks as teacup smashes on wall)
    Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath!

    CwC: It's only 3 O'clock! Smash!

    LAOF- Pro 28:28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase. Run Dan, Run!!

    (Howls of laughter)

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  31. Yeah, speculating and asssumption are fine. People just have realize that truth is relative. Some people have a truth that few others share (example: Jabba the Hutt is strangely sexy). Then there is a truth that many share (Jabba the Hutt isn't sexy in the slightest). And yet another truth: (Who is Jabba the Hutt?)

    Every so-called truth has three responses (unless there are even more that I haven't thought of) - agree/disagree/I don't know.

    The fact that people disagree as to whether there is an absolute (universal) truth proves that it cannot be.

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  32. I don't agree that those are truths. I think that they are opinions, and while it may be true that someone has those opinions, the opinions themselves are neither true nor false.

    The fact that people disagree as to whether there is an absolute (universal) truth proves that it cannot be.

    To say that there is an absolute truth is not problematic in and of itself. To say that you know what the absolute truth is requires omniscience.

    Let's say for example that at some point of time, events x and y happened.

    For some reason, only x left evidence, and there was no evidence of y happening.

    We can only say for sure that x happened, even though it is absolutely true that y happened as well, but we don't have knowledge of it.

    Now while asserting that x happened is closer to the truth than saying that x didn't happen, the TRUTH is that x and y both happened whether or not we have evidence of both events.

    This is what i am talking about when i say that i think that there has to be an absolute truth. A complete history of events that happened. But we will never know that complete history, because the majority of those events left no evidence for us to examine.

    To relate it to paleontology, there is undoubtedly more species than the fossil record shows. There was a definite number of species on this planet at any given point, but we will never know the true number of species, because not every species left evidence for us.

    Does this make sense?

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  33. Sye nailed it over at Dan's-

    "Quite simply, if it IS NOT absolutley true, that there is no absolute truth, then there can be absolute truth, and if it IS absolutely true that there is no absolute truth, then also, there must be, absolute truth.

    Denying absolute truth (as you are doing) is self-refuting."

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  34. One example of absolute truth will do me.

    One thought/belief/event/opinion.

    Otherwise it's just an unfortunate linguistic paradox, incapable of application in the real world.

    The sentence below is absolutely false.

    The sentence above is absolutely true.

    See what I mean? It's like a party trick. Nothing to do with the real world.

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  35. Sye can be the celebrity guest visitor, constantly asking everyone if eveything is absolutely true.

    Vagon: Uh oh! It's Sye. I wonder what he'll be GASSING about today? More HOT AIR about absolute truth I'll bet!

    Vagon: (Farts uncontrollably for about a minute)

    Vagon: I think I just shit myself.

    [Voice from outside]: Is that ABSOLUTELY true?

    CwC, Dan, Vagon: (In a blatant rip off of Cheers) Sye!

    (Sye struts into the room, with an arrogance that no Canadian will ever have the right to musyer.)

    Sye: What seems to be the absolute problem?

    Dan: (Points to CwC) It's HER Sye, my awful atheist wife! She's off again. Can you help me out here?

    Sye: Absolutely! (Beams at the audience)

    Audience: (Cheers and laughter)

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  36. Oh and Dan your or Sye's theory falls short in that reason to doubt an outcome is not a reason to reject the outcome.

    We have induction and deduction. Modern probability and statistics works off deduction, telling us something about a group from parts of it: population/samples.

    If you don't look for absolute truth, induction has no problem.

    Thinking about it is no doubt important, but if you want to skip to the answers you can read some Hume.

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  37. (Dan and Sye have a bit too friendly hug)

    (Pan, in the background Vagon cleans underwear, zoom to profile)

    I guess it all comes out in the wash.

    (winks)

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  38. Bubbly Theme song-

    (Intro, deep-beep beebly beep!)
    He's a Messianic Jew
    She's an Atheist Shrew
    They're the mixed up couple from
    Babylon the Great!
    And that's great!

    Is it true?
    No it's not!
    It's not what?
    Just a thought.
    I presuppose you'll love them too!
    (Biddley bip!)

    -Cut to commercial for the
    Giant House of Waffles brought to you by the Church of Frodology.

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  39. Dan:

    You are a comedy genius.

    Genuinely, that's fantastic :) x!

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