My response to Ray's screed about Hitler, Dahmer and justice.
It appears that the atheists posting on this blog are far more compassionate, and more Christ-like than Ray Comfort.
In the months that I've been reading, and posting on this blog, (when they aren't arbitrarily censored) I don't recall a single instance when Ray Comfort has admitted that he was wrong, and apologized for his error. Even when he has been repeatedly and categorically shown to be wrong,
Ray,
This would be a good place to start.
Or am I mistakenly interpreting your derision of Alex and asking him "Have you no desire for retribution?" as that you intrinsically do desire retribution?
We do know about your attitude to six million dead Jews. You think that it is well and proper that they are suffering eternal damnation for not having accepted Christ as their savior while they were being led into the gas chambers, and as they were breathing their last breath, and praying to the only God they knew, as the Zyclon-B wafted into their lungs.
They are your people too, Ray. Are you happy for them to be suffering in Hell? That reveals something about you.
UPDATE-
It did get posted on A?C
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In my darkest hours, I think that this God might exist, might be in control; and is going to torture me forever when I die.
ReplyDeleteBecause for as long as my will is my own, I will never, ever say that he is good.
CC-
ReplyDeleteAs a parent, can you imagine a voice in your head telling you to take your child up the hill, and kill her as a sacrifice? Even if, at the last minute, the knife poised above your precious child, the voice said, "No, I was just kidding. It was just a test to see if you were faithful to me."
Maybe that kind of shit flew 4,000 years ago, but I'm glad that I live in a time where someone who even considered that would hopefully be locked up in an insane asylum.
If he is real, he's evil.
ReplyDeleteIf not, it doesn't matter.
But I'm not bumming up to someone like him, just because he can cause pain.
Fuck him.
Like someone posted in the comments over at Ray's, the whole concept is too stupid to be real. I always argued against Christianity on technical grounds but it wasn't until recently that I stepped back and looked at the totality.
ReplyDeleteThe god that their religion describes - Ray's version anyway - is so utterly flawed and evil that reality could not possibly be as agreeable as my senses tell me it is.
My worst nightmares could not conjure up a figure of terror to exceed Ray's God. What frustrates and amazes me is the doublethink required to love and respect such a being as the epitome of goodness.
It reminds me of one of those dysfunctional relationships where the battered wife can never bring herself to leave the abuser. Sad in reality and sad in religion.
Somewhat relevant:
ReplyDeleteSo Abram rose, and clave the wood, and went,
And took the fire with him, and a knife.
And as they sojourned both of them together,
Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
And builded parapets and trenches there,
And stretched forth the knife to slay his son.
When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
Neither do anything to him. Behold,
A ram, caught in a thicket by its horns;
Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.
But the old man would not so, but slew his son,
And half the seed of Europe, one by one.
"The Parable of the Old Man and the Young", Wilfred Owen
The first thing we had to do in our religious studies class was to write what we believe. Here is what I wrote:
ReplyDelete"What I Believe
Personally I am of the opinion that there are two options: 1) God does not exist in any form; 2) God exists in some form. Unfortunately, having to actually try to define what is meant by the term “god” is something that I find impossible to do. Equally, I find that I can’t personally prove or disprove the existence of “god”.
Having been raised in a strictly Christian family, I was indoctrinated with reams of Christian literature for as far back as I can remember. And if it comes to whether I believe in the Christian God from the bible… I believe this.
If he exists, exactly as described in the bible (and this is supposed to be his exact written instruction to all of his followers), then he is a moody, spoilt, neurotic, violent and misogynistic individual who actually displays most of the behavioural characteristics of a thirteen year old boy setting ants on fire with a magnifying glass.
And while it’s entirely possible that such a creature may exist in some dimension or other, beyond the current reach of our collective knowledge and understanding; it is ridiculous to worship him. Worshipping in itself is demeaning and slavish, and I question the mental state of individuals who get a kick out of grovelling to their “vengeful” and “jealous” god like a pack of battered housewives.
So. Either God doesn’t exist, so I’m sound anyway and can die happy, or God is real, and insane; and will judge me when I die. I will have to account for not worshipping him and all of that “making my own informed and educated decisions” business. And I’ll tell him straight- I can’t and won’t say that I could ever love, respect or worship him. Then I’d go to hell and suffer for all eternity, just because I was conceived at one random moment in time- dragged from happy nothingness and forced to play a ridiculous game where nobody can win unless they snivel around after a great big giant lunatic in the sky.
If God’s real, I’m screwed. So here’s hoping fervently that he isn’t."
Yeah alphgeek, the "battered housewife" analogy seems appropriate.
When I still had the tiniest little doubt that God existed, I called to mind the fact that Muslims, for instance, could easily have the same fears about Allah. That led to the realization that I never worried about whether Allah might exist. From the outside, he? is just too ludicrous. That allowed me to get outside of my belief system and see the whole god thing as nothing more than shit that was rammed down my throat when I was far, far too young to appreciate how fucked up it really was. It hasn't made me a happier person -- I suspect I'm just too dark -- but it's removed any and all fear of dying.
ReplyDeletec.c. said...
ReplyDeleteWorshipping in itself is demeaning and slavish, and I question the mental state of individuals who get a kick out of grovelling to their “vengeful” and “jealous” god like a pack of battered housewives.
Why do you think he is so evil?
Read what he has done. Read your Bible.
ReplyDeleteIf I did it, you would call me evil.
You make up excuses for him.
But he is evil.
Arguing with Sye is entertaining, but if you think his semantics or baseless assertations prove that God is good, I'm sorry but you're wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe only crime is to believe he doesn't exist.
Yet he remains elusive.
What a wanker.
obsidian said
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think he is so evil?
Hmm, let me see. The story about the slaying of the firstborn in Egypt pretty well does it for me.
But on top of that we can put the whole Noah story, where God supposedly destroys his creation. Sounds more like a nasty kid breaking and then stepping on his ant farm because the ants don't worship him to his satisfaction.
But since I do not hold to a personal, vengeful god such as that, I just find the stories childish and distasteful.
Here's mine:
ReplyDelete----------------------------
Ray,
You already posted an amazing Poe with your investigators post, but now you're over-egging the pudding. This latest post really isn't clever enough to fool anyone; it's too obvious that the position you appear to support is utterly untenable. Even most of the usual Christian respondees can see this one is indefensible!
Come on now - it's time to leave the party. You've done your work and exposed the Christian mindset for what it is. Don't detract from it by feeling you need to make just one more outrageous statement.
Love,
Baldy
They are your people too, Ray. Are you happy for them to be suffering in Hell? That reveals something about you.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure he's just fine with it; he doesn't lose a moment of sleep. As long as HE'S saved - that's all that matters.
I once came across an account of a preacher who said, "Every man, woman and child who died in the Holocaust went from the fires of the crematoria straight into the fires of hell."
Fundamentalism is a form of addiction, and as long as they get the ontological security blanket for a few brief decades, they regard your eternal damnation as a perfectly acceptable part of the transaction.
I realize it's a pathology, and I should feel compassion - but they're such abject examples of walking fertilizer that I just can't find it within myself.
My post about David Berkowitz and Stacy Moskowitz was not posted and I broke none of his rules. Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteI noticed that most of the "christians" who support Ray are not sharing their public profiles. Given that their posts are pretty stupid -- not to mention nonresponsive -- it occurred to me that may "they" are all just Ray posting under various aliases.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought.
Alex,
ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt in my mind that sock puppetry goes on there.
Has he removed the picture to the post after people attacked him for it?
ReplyDeleteYeah, he has. What a complete cowardly-custard wuss bag.
ReplyDeleteHe should at least be man enough to stand behind the things he says.
Alex, BeamStalk,
ReplyDeletethat's particularly amusing. You guys remember when someone at Ray's, I think it was the now banned Terry or maybe Mark Laine, complained that all the atheists had no profile and therefore weren't worth paying attention to?
Where are the complaints now that many of the Christians apparently 'don't exist'?
Felix,
ReplyDeleteThat was projection from Terry and his sock puppetry ways. as he proved here shortly after that.
My comment about the Son of Sam Murderer and Stacy Moskowitz did not get published again.
ReplyDeleteI posted this and will see if it gets posted:
Why are you not posting my comments? Is it because I naming David Berkowitz and Stacy Moskowitz?
What little faith you have if such an example has to be censored.
This is the third attempt.
BeamStalk - I did that, myself for a while. I kept posting statements about him endorsing Sarah Palin, and they kept being deleted. Someone else got through, but every time I mentioned how they wouldn't let me and that Ray can easily just retract a statement, it was deleted.
ReplyDeleteMan's got class, I tell you what.