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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Just a reminder

Ray Comfort is still a piece of shit.


http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2008/12/eternal-publishment.html

42 comments:

  1. I want to register the name 'Yoda' with Google just so I can post 'The hate is strong with this one' in response to Comforts bloodlust.

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  2. "of of" Ha!

    Oh, and 'Eternal PUBLISHMENT'? Is he talking about his books getting printed for eternity?

    How long before the Ministry of Truth goes to work of these little errors?

    And this is before we even get to the content of the post!

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  3. I want to know what Ray thinks separates him from the Dahmers and the Hitlers. He's certainly okay with condemning them - and anyone else he deems unworthy - of an eternity of eternal torture. Hell, he relishes the thought that those who disagree with him will be punished in unspeakable ways.

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  4. I once read a book about a girl who was raped and killed and then went to heaven and watched her family and her killer for years. The family tried to find the culprit but never managed (first they didn't know who it was and when they found out, the guy just vanished)
    The book ended when the killer died because of an obscure accident. It was meant as a kind of happy ending since he went to hell where he belonged, but I always thought that he somehow managed to get away with it...

    Really, I don't understand this hell-thing.

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  5. Sure, Dahmer and Hitler are example of people that no one could show moral support for. Even the person in the hypothetical cartoon would most likely not be supported.

    But no matter what these people did, as horrible as their actions were, there is no reason for an infinite punishment for a crime which at most would only last a finite amount capped at their life time.

    If Hitler had a machine to lure the various groups killed in the holocaust into it and kill them ,and if it had the ability to operate way past his death without any outside upkeep, then and only then would I say he would have to go to hell. This case would be an infinite punishment for an infinite crime.

    Even further abominable is the idea that a small and brief transgression would lead to infinite punishment.

    However, until they find the devil I won't take stock in the notion of hell. I would suggest looking on Krop Tor around black hole K37 Gem 5 as a starting point.

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  6. Ha! I didn't even catch "publishment". Ray must be more concerned with his upcoming "books" and how much he'll add to his coffers.

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  7. The crimes of Myra Hindley and Ian Brady

    A Christian response to Myra Hindley.

    Ray is being deliberately retarded, he knows that it wouldn't matter what Hitler had done, just as long as he had repented and turned to Christ.

    Saul of Tarsus tortured and murdered Christians. After his conversion, "St Paul" became the biggest post-Jesus hero in the freakin' New Testament.

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  8. CC,

    Not to mention the fact that Dahmer (who Ray references in this post) was born-again while in prison and so, according to Ray's theology, is actually enjoying eternal joy. Seems fair.

    Wait.

    What?

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  9. Of course the ultimate irony is that most of the victims of Nazi death camps went straight to hell - according to Ray.

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  10. "Of course the ultimate irony is that most of the victims of Nazi death camps went straight to hell - according to Ray."

    This.

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  11. From reading Ray's posts you wouldn't know he claims to be a Christian. I wonder if he has ever listened to what Jesus had to say about revenge?

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  12. Here's what I posted, we'll see if he lets it through:

    SPEAKING OF THE JEWS, remind me: Anne Frank's hanging in Heaven, right? Or is she howling in Hell with the Hitler who would murder her? I seem to recall it being the opinion of a large chunk of this website that Frank is burning in the Lake of Fire because she didn't accept Christ.

    Ray, tell me that Anne Frank went to Heaven and why. If you have no answer, then you're probably saying that Jews go to Hell with the man who tried to exterminate them. That says something about your attitude to six million dead Jews (and, indeed, the entire Jewish faith. Along with Muslims, pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, agnostics, atheists, pantheists and Pastafarians). If your loving God is going to deal with not believing in Jesus (but believing in Jesus's religion, hey) the same way as mass genocide, then I would say that he views being harmless and good with being evil and bloodthirsty. So if Anne Frank goes to Hell, Jeffery Dahmer should too, or Hitler, or Gengis Khan, or Pol Pot, or Stalin, or Woody Allen, or arguably Bishop John Shelby Spong. If, by your God's own values, all things are equal with Christ, then why is it important to make these moral value judgements or create these strawmen to appeal to Alex's better sense? The only truly bad thing you God sees by any of those people is the same bad thing he sees in me, or in Captain Howdy or the Raytractors or Ben Stein: we don't accept Christ. I would say that you have no right whatsoever to cast judgment on a man like Alex when your own moral centre is so astonishingly horrid.

    Now.

    Alex's point isn't about punishment. It's about ETERNAL punishment. Justice and punishment go hand in hand, this is an accepted thing. But eternal punishment? Did Christ forgive only those who believed him the Son of God? I don't know the Bible, you tell me.

    Maybe you should use that imagination of yours and grasp the concept of ETERNITY. That is TIME WITHOUT END. I know people like Vera will be up in Heaven, forgetting all about our screaming punishment after a few decades, but I want you to consider very strongly the purpose of punishment. Is it for the benefit of the punished? So they suffer and learn and come out of it possibly changed, or is it for the victim? So they can feel that vengeance has been paid? Think hard about that, Ray. If there is no eventual opportunity for the lesson to take hold, what is the purpose for punishment? Remember: from the sounds of it, there is no middle choice. You go to Heaven forever, or you go to Hell forever. All punishments are equal without Christ.

    If your God is so unwilling to provide forgiveness or a chance at redemption after punishment is dished out, then your God is doing it for one of the following reasons:

    1. He likes inflicting pain and suffering.
    2. He likes watching pin and suffering.
    3. He doesn't understand humanity.
    4. He is a fabrication to instill fear in already frightened people.

    Take your pick, Ray. You can offer other choices, but you need to explain it. Stay consistent. You tried to tell Alex he's a horrible person fo not caring about the murdered Jews, but your religion inflicts time unending of torture on them. How do you reconcile that?

    Perhaps you should try thinking sometime. Maybe it will do something for you.

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  13. Man, I should have edited more. I think it says what I want to, but could always be clearer.

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  14. Joe Bloggs told a white lie. Are you happy with Joe being dead? Or do you want him tortured in flames forever?
    Jane Doe looked at a man with lust. Justice demands she be thrown in a lake of fire.
    Have you no desire for retribution? Doesn’t their actions cry out for justice? Perhaps you should go and see the movie "The Boy Who Could Fly" Maybe it will do something for you.

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  15. theShaggy,

    Beautiful.

    If Ray reads that and doesn't apologize for this tragic post, he is shameless beyond redemption. I won't hold my breath.

    "Have you no desire for retribution? "

    This tells me everything I need to know about that sad little man.

    wrd. ver. butfers

    Ray is a butfer.

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  16. Even by Ray's perilously poor ethical standards, that's a low.

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  17. Tilia said-

    Really, I don't understand this hell-thing.

    Don't worry, Tilia, neither does Ray.

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  18. Craig: thanks :-) Heh, I only post some of my responses here for posterity, because I figure that much time spent shouldn't be wasted with Ray's delete button.

    Once the SMRT forums go up, we should so have a stick thread for this. I'm certain I'm not the only one.

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  19. Matthew, I posted about the 6 million jews being in hell also.

    I also mentioned David Berkowitz and Stacy Moskowitz. Since Mr. Son of Sam is now born again in jail and poor Stacy was a jew, that means David gets to go to heaven while the women he killed is in hell according to Ray. Justice! wait....

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  20. "I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell?"

    Proof once again that Homer Simpson is far wiser than Ray Comfort.

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  21. What's a butfer?

    (word verification: partier)

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  22. Great job, Shaggy!

    I think that was Ray's most outrageous post to date.

    I hope someone ridiculed him for his typos too.

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  23. "What's a butfer?"

    I don't know. It just sounded like something I should call Ray.

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  24. Guys: these responses were epic. Ray has been obsphoged. There's really nothing else to add.

    Do you think Ray writes the scripts for those cartoons?

    PS: Don't bother looking up obsphog: it's the word verification.

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  25. Ralph Wiggum is wiser than Ray Comfort.

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  26. Here's my response to Ray's "argument", reposted here in case it doesn't get past Ray's crack team of moderators:
    _____________________________________

    Just when you think Ray can't set the bar any lower, he comes out with a gem like this.

    Alex, you have just revealed something about your character. Jeffery Dahmer raped murdered, dismembered, and then ate his victims. If one of them was your little brother, would you want Dahmer to go to Hell? Or are you quite happy (assuming that you are an atheist) for him simply to be dead.

    Three problems with this argument, Ray:

    1) False dilemma. There are other choices for the atheist than wishing Dahmer dead.

    2) Isn't your religion supposed to be big on forgiveness?

    3) You can wish your enemies to be tortured for all eternity, but that doesn't make it true.

    How about Hitler? Where would you like him to end up? Are you happy also for him to be dead?

    Same problems as with your last "argument".

    Then that reveals something about your attitude to six million dead Jews. Have you no desire for retribution? Doesn’t their blood cry out for justice?

    This passage reveals quite a bit about your attitude, Ray. Isn't it written, "judge not, lest ye be judged"?

    Perhaps you should go and see the movie "The Boy in Striped Pajamas." Maybe it will do something for you.

    Perhaps you should look up the etymology of the word "forgive". Maybe it will do something for you.

    What's really amusing is that in all of your self-righteous chest-thumping about Dahmer and Hitler, you completely failed to address Alex's basic point - that no amount of finite wickedness, no matter how severe, merits infinite punishment. That's the crux of Alex's argument, and twelve sentences later, you not only fail completely to even address this, but what you do address, you do with completely specious arguments.

    Honestly, Ray...are you even trying anymore?

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  27. Nohm said...
    "What's a butfer?"

    Some one with a butfer a face.

    Brought to you by the Royal Institute of Childish Insults, est 1841. "We Know That You Are, but What Are We?"

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  28. Somehow I don't think that this will make it through the censors (although publishing it here seems to help), but I just posted the following:

    Okay, Ray, you want torture for sins? Well, you've sinned plenty (everyone's guilty of adultery, murder and lying, remember?) so how about you show us some justice? Now, I'm not a giant Beard in the Sky (TM), so I'm not going to demand an infinite amount of torture, which was the point that Alex was fultiley trying to hammer through your skull, but I am happy to settle for fifteen minutes. Quarter of an hour. 1.042% of a day. A mere 28.5millionths of a year. The tiniest, most insignificant portion of your life here on Earth and, surely, an immeasurable blip in your eternal existence.

    So, Ray, you get yourself waterboarded for fifteen minutes (by professionals, please - this can be very dangerous if done by amateurs) on video and I will convert. Money where your mouth is time.

    Who thinks that he'll take me up on the offer?

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  29. Damn, I was hoping for:

    "What's a butfer?"

    Pooping, mostly.

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  30. For the record, I agree that Ray's argument is absolutely horrible and will get shredded...

    But, for me, nothing will beat his "how did those male and female humans evolve the ability to have sex?" post from last week.

    (word verification: "choofor")

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  31. Nohm said...
    (word verification: "choofor")

    Okay then, to defend the honour of the institute:

    What's a choofor?
    A choo is for Easter, not just for Christmas.

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  32. I posted the following response to Ray, which also has not yet been published.

    Ray,

    The problem is that even if I wanted there to be a hell for Jeffery Dahmer to be punished for having killed, raped and eaten my little brother, I'm intellectually honest enough to realize that my wanting it to be so doesn't make it so. In fact, it doesn't even make it the tiniest bit more likely.

    Based on the comic with which you prefaced your comment, I fear that I may not have been clear enough in my original remark, so let me try again.

    I don't have a problem with punishment per se; but I do have a problem with the idea of eternal punishment. (An important distinction that your comic ignores.) The reason for this is that I believe that the punishment should fit the crime, and no matter how heinous the crime, eternity is just too much punishment.

    If there were a hell, maybe Hitler would deserve a thousand years of punishment, maybe a million, maybe a billion, maybe even a trillion. No matter. Even a trillion years (thats 1,000,000,000,000 years) is but a speck when compared to eternity. (Looked at another way, eternity consists of an infinity number of trillion year periods.)

    Put simply, as finite beings (and notwithstanding our penchant for nastiness) I don't believe that we are capable of the infinite evil that would be necessary in order to justify infinite punishment.

    A related problem with eternal punishment is that if damnation is the result of both mass murder and adultery, so that the mass murderer and the adulterer both end up in hell forever, then that sort of suggests that mass murder and adultery are morally equivalent, and that seems to be an affront to common sense.

    I hope that has clarified my view. I await your reply.

    Pax


    It was really hard not to be snarkier.

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  33. Tilia wrote Really, I don't understand this hell-thing.

    It's a simple concept designed to scare the ignorant (or perhaps those who haven't decided whether they buy Christianity or not).

    Really, it's a leftlover from theocratic rule

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  34. In trying to clarify his position to Ray Comfort, Alex said;

    "...and that seems to be an affront to common sense."

    Since when has Ray let common sense get in the way of a good bit of fear-mongering and misrepresentation?

    Good luck with that approach...

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  35. Wow you guys really nailed Ray on this one!

    I found this sentence of Ray's interesting:
    "Doesn’t their blood cry out for justice?"

    How primitive and hateful does this one sound? Also, way to confuse justice and punishment with an eternal hell Ray. If someone disagrees with hell that doesn't mean they disagree with punishment (duh). I would take it a step further and say I wouldn't even agree with capital punishment. It makes me think of that "why do we kill people who kill to show that killing is wrong" saying. What makes us any better than a killer when we kill him/her? The only difference is someone started the killing first. You would think since Ray acts like he is so much more moral than everyone else he would try and be the better, more forgiving and more just person.

    Eternal hellfire =/= punishment. The only purpose it could serve is to make the heaven people feel good, which is just sick. If you are truly moral you wouldn't enjoy watching anyone be physically harmed and would only use it if it were the only way to avoid further harm (like in the case of self defense).

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  36. The Skeptical Sorcerer said...
    'It makes me think of that "why do we kill people who kill to show that killing is wrong" saying.'

    Sort of like parents who catch their child hitting their siblings and belt them across the head whilst screaming, "Don't hit people!" Come to think of it, didn't one of Ray's earlier posts say that his father was a corporal punishment sort of guy? Perhaps the authoritative / punishing father figure thing is what he is actually looking for in his god; we do, after all, create our own gods regardless of what the "official" version of our religion. Just look at how much picking and choosing goes on with the bible and whether or not it says you should keep slaves / hate gays / stone children / burn witches etc. What the book says is, for the most part, quite clear (it reflects the attitudes of the tribe(s) that wrote it), but all Christians that I have ever met interpret it to meet what they want it to say.

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  37. @ Paul Brown,

    Exactly! I once saw this child who was being really loud and shouting at other people, so her dad pulled her right up to his face and screamed "stop shouting at people!!!". Then the dad went about his day like nothing obviously ironic had just happened.

    I definitely find Ray intriguing on a psychological level and if he is making his god like his father that could explain alot about why he writes some of the things he does. I think people subconsciously interpret many things based on their past experiences, what they want to be true, etc without even being aware of it.

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  38. One of my favorite psychos from Ray's is back on this post; "Brent", who said he'd rather have his daughter die in a fire than be rescued by an atheist, because we would corrupt her and cause her damnation. Anyone else remember him?

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  39. Rufus:

    I just replied to Brent, and reminded him of the fire discussion.

    Guy's a total fucktard. Too bad there isn't actually a god to protect his daughter from his batshit insane beliefs.

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  40. Not to worry about Brent.

    The market is so bad in Atlanta right now, every developer is royally fucked.

    He's gonna have to pray a lot harder!

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