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Wednesday, November 19, 2008

Absolutely Capital

Just a short post, coming off a comment from 'lord of numa' on Ray's latest inanity.


"Now, I feel that I must express my surprise in finding that our posts will be deleted if we do not capitalize "God" or "Jesus." I completely understand the profanity and civility rules, as I believe that it should be possible for two individuals of heavily dissenting religious views to have a rational, civil discussion pertaining to those views. Unfortunately, that will not be possible on this blog. It seems that this is more of a way for you to attack Atheism, which you apparently find irrational and illogical, and I will certainly get to that in a minute.

"Please explain to me why we must capitalize "God" and "Jesus."Surely you are aware that not everyone shares your religious views, so why make everyone pretend?

"I guess the "God" rule could be used simply for clarification, as "god" could be used in reference to any number of mythological beings, but "God" only refers to one mythological being. So, no confusion there, I guess."

While I can understand that deleting posts that fail to capitalise is churlish, is it really a matter of particular consequence that we non-believers correctly capitalise proper nouns?
Firstly, as identified above, with God having a capital, it does serve to distinguish the Judeo-Christian deity from any others, but additionally, we have no problem capitalising the name Voldemort, and he doesn't exist either!
As also identified above - and I'm not a good example of someone who always does this - remaining civil is more productive than simply calling Raymundo 'an ignorant fuckwit'. He unquestionably is one, being perilously close to being used as the dictionary definition thereof, and his fuckwittery is so mendacious that he deserves precious little respect, but we're never going to convince Ray of anything anyway. He's too far gone. It's other people we have a hope of influencing. Ray we're just aiming to catch out and demonstrating the paucity of his arguments with a view to showing his believing readers why x or y view sucks like a Dyson.
I know that some atheists think it's a useful bit of consciousness raising. Personally, I'm more minded to think that if we don't have anything more convincing than a slightly bolshy refusal to capitalise a proper noun, we really don't have much of a case.
I sincerely think we have got much better arguments at our disposal, as regularly seen on sites like this.
Views?

43 comments:

  1. Whether or not I capitalize the word 'god' really depends on my mood.

    While remaining civil is most likely more productive than ranting, I'm not in it for the productivity most of the time. I'm not trying to change anyone's religion, I merely call it as I see it.

    ReplyDelete
  2. If I am referring to the specific god of the Bible called, "God," of course I'll capitalize it. The same goes with Jesus. I also capitalize Harry Potter.

    The only weird capitalization is when Christians capitalize "His" or "He" when referring to their god. Grammatically, they shouldn't do it, but it's part of Christian tradition.

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  3. I'll start being civil with those bastards when they start getting smarter.

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  4. To be fair to Ray (spits), I'm not aware that he does insist on capitalising non personal pronouns, does he?

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  5. As a card carrying member of the Pedantic Assholes of America, I think it is proper to capitalize proper nouns such as Jesus and God (when used to specify that which is considered a particular deity).

    As far as I know, Ray doesn't delete posts because "he" and "his" aren't capitalized.

    Which is not to say that he doesn't delete posts that factually call him out as an ignorant fool, and other reasons I can't begin to fathom.

    Off topic - anyone see the Nova special on the bible last night?

    I fell asleep about 1/3 into it, but recorded it, for viewing at my leisure.

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  6. [I sincerely think we have got much better arguments at our disposal,]
    I doubt it. I knew this blog was bankrupt when people started sending Ray dirty pictures

    ReplyDelete
  7. MFT,

    If you want to beat the dead dirty picture horse, address your comments to me since I am the one that did it and I still am not sorry about it.

    Other members of this blog had nothing to do with that incident.

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  8. I'm that same as Kaitlyn on this. I capitalize in part when referring to a specific God.

    Additionally, Ray's cadre of supporters are a vacuous lot; they need to have ther egos stroked in some small way if you want them to read your post. So I do it partly out of respect, in order that they not turn their brains off entirely.

    Do I think capitalization is necessary? No - I think Ray's just trying to get us to play by his rules because he enjoys the power. It may also be a fallback position for deleting posts he doesn't like.

    Meh.

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  9. "I knew this blog was bankrupt when people started sending Ray dirty pictures"

    Yet you stick around posting on here. For the record, as far as I'm concerned you can fuck off (and, in fucking off, please note how much better it is to tell someone to fuck off than it is to not capitalise the name of a fictional entity).

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  10. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/hedonisticpleasureseeker/Please_Do_Not_Feed_The_Troll.jpg

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  11. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  12. MFT-

    What makes a picture "dirty", you sanctimonious prig?

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  13. MFer,

    "I knew this blog was bankrupt when people started sending Ray dirty pictures"

    You must be referring to "PenisGate 08."

    I don't know if you ever saw the picture but it was of a BIG COCK IN PLACE OF THE BANANA RIGHT ON RAY'S FACE!!!!! ha!

    THAT WAS THE FUNNIEST THING I EVER SAW HAPPEN OVER AT CUMFORT'S BLOG, BY FAR!
    And don't tell me you didn't get a chuckle over it.

    By the way, the cock appeared quite clean- not dirty at all. Plus there was a good reason for that retaliation but it would be lost on you.

    And what so offends you about a picture of a cock on Cumfort's face?

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  14. Nonmagic,
    The best part was it took him several days to notice even though his minions were throwing out "Dirt Alert" comments.
    They just could not bring themselves to just come out and say, "hey Ray, there's a picture of you with a cock in your face."

    Tooo funny! hehe

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  15. Sometimes It's Nice Just To Come Here And Capitalize Every Single Word But jesus And god. It's Not Clever, It's Not Correct, But Holy Shit Is It Nice Not To Be Censored! Also jesus And god Are Royal Tit Wanks And The Day I Capitalize Their Names Out Of Respect Will Be The Day I Lose My Sense of Humor.

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  16. Frodo,
    I think I'd like to buy into your company that now owns hell. What price are the shares, or haven't you gone public yet?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Whether one feels they are in the right or not in an argument or debate, nothing seems to discredit the speaker (and turn off the "listener") more than the use of obscenities.

    For example, R. Dawkins comments about if others don't believe in his science the can "F*** off" is one of the more off-putting vids out there. It is at that point that he turns from a knowledgeable scientist into a spoiled kid, ready to take his ball and go home.

    This is just my opinion, take it or leave it. I definitely wouldn't want to restrict anyone's freedom of speech (or thought).

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  18. sorry to be off-topic, but speaking of "captials" - anyone else read (and enjoy) Don Marquis' "Archy and Mehitabel"

    The talk of capitalizing words got me thinking of that style....

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  19. I'm in the George Carlin camp on this one: they're just words!

    # Shit
    # Piss
    # Fuck
    # Cunt
    # Cocksucker
    # Motherfucker
    # Tits

    All praise to Joe Pesci

    ReplyDelete
  20. laof,
    even an Oxford prof gets very annoyed and uncivil once in a while, maby not with great reason or composure, but definitely not unprovoked. You should read about how Newton and many of his contemporaries treated even fellow scientists. They probably used a different vocabulary, but in their time it was just as strong.

    Btw., when rdnet was restructured about six weeks ago and a lot of people were complaining about what they perceived as pedantic and prudish censorship, Dawkins commented 'if you people need a forum to discuss fist-fucking, this isn't the place for it' (paraphrased). He did use that word and some others from below the belt line. Hilarious.

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  21. LAOF wrote Whether one feels they are in the right or not in an argument or debate, nothing seems to discredit the speaker (and turn off the "listener") more than the use of obscenities.

    For the most part, LAOF, I agree with you. I certainly wont suggest that people should change the way they write - we're all here for our own reasons, and the bottom line is that it's a form of entertainment.

    My writing style has its faults (verbosity, reads like I'm *trying* to use big words, awkward sentences, etc), but I've always felt that raw obscenity hurts my chances of being read honestly/seriously. And since that's what I aim for, I avoid swearing.

    Nonetheless, you can make a good case for the idea that a very carefully placed obscenity can be productive. It's like intentionally sticking your foot out to trip someone at a marathon; it slows them down enough so that they notice you.

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  22. WeM said:

    "...but I've always felt that raw obscenity hurts my chances of being read honestly/seriously..."

    I agree with you and I've noticed this about your style. Quite to my liking (if that counts for anything).

    Also:

    "It's like intentionally sticking your foot out to trip someone at a marathon; it slows them down enough so that they notice you."

    Yes, but IMO, it also shows you to be a jackass when you do it.

    I cannot even begin to say how much I believe in EVERYONE'S right to speak as they wish.

    I, personally, just choose not to (use obscenities) as much as I can.

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  23. LAOF wrote Yes, but IMO, it also shows you to be a jackass when you do it.

    True. For me, that's why it's always calculated; the risk is worth the potential benefit...

    And, not to turn this into a back-patting session, but I've noticed you being extremely polite as well (moreso than myself, imho). Even though I don't always agree with what you say, I've always respected that. Thanks :)

    Anyhow, I prefer the indirect insult. It's a blogging metagame for me, to see how nasty I can be without actually being nasty...

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  24. laof-

    What makes a word "obscene"?

    ps- Vous êtes un pharisien supérieur (sanctimonious prig) aussi.

    ReplyDelete
  25. WEM:
    Not to turn this into a 'love-fest' between us, I agree, but you said:

    "Anyhow, I prefer the indirect insult. It's a blogging metagame for me, to see how nasty I can be without actually being nasty..."

    I prefer to do the same myself, when necessary. Better to let your opponent wonder if it was an assault or not.
    It seems more satisfying that way. :-)

    As far as my 'politeness' - I think every rational human deserves a basic amount of respect. You can disagree about something without going ballistic at the drop of a hat.

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  26. BF -

    I'd agree that obscenity is (usually) defined by individual (you pretentious twit).

    I ascribe to the 'Carlin 7'.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Oh Snap.

    We have a Harry Potter reference

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  28. Benjamin Franklin said...

    What makes a picture "dirty", you sanctimonious prig?

    Kelley R. said...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Laof and WEM, I try to abstain from language when in an actual argument. It is just sometimes you have to call things as you see it. Like, Bob Larson is a cunt, because well he is. There are others I would say the same about too.

    Also the Carlin 7 words were amended to 10.
    piss
    shit
    fuck
    cunt
    cocksucker
    motherfucker
    tits
    fart
    turd
    twat

    ReplyDelete
  30. "As far as my 'politeness' - I think every rational human deserves a basic amount of respect. You can disagree about something without going ballistic at the drop of a hat."

    So, what the fuck are you trying to say?

    ReplyDelete
  31. ˙ǝıp puɐ ɟɟo ʞɔnɟ os ˙ɟɟnʇs ʎɯ pɐǝɹ oʇ ʇou ʍouʞ ןןıʍ pǝpuǝɟɟo ǝɹɐ sǝıʇıןıqısuǝs ǝsoɥʍ ǝןdoǝd ǝɥʇ os ɹǝuuɐɯ sıɥʇ uı ǝʇıɹʍ ןןıʍ ı ssnɔ oʇ ǝpıɔǝp ı uǝɥʍ uo ʍou ɯoɹɟ ˙ʞo

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  32. Froggie,

    I couldn't read that, then I put on "Dark Side of the Moon", and it all made perfect sense.

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  33. In cussing, like most things, moderation is key. If I use a cuss word in my personal life, people are shocked and know I'm serious.

    Now, if I tell my daughter to go to bed and she's ignoring me, I'll raise my voice a bit and say, "Get your ass in that fucking bed now!" Not really, but it's crossed my mind.

    Obscenities can be added for flavor but should never be served as a main course.

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  34. One day my wife and I were on an outing with my son and two of his friends.
    They were about 13- 14 at the time.
    They were screwing around in the back seat of the car and one of them slipped and said, "fuck."

    Of course they were acting contrite but Mrs Frog gave them a little hell and said, "don't get used to using words like that or else you might slip at the wrong time and cause yourself grief."

    She went on, "say you are sitting in a restaurant and you blurt out, please pass the fucking butter."

    That caused
    a moment of stifled hilarity because they heard Mrs Frog say "fuck" for the first time ever and it was funny as could be. Then they got quiet and she went on, "and if you did that you would then have to say, "excuse me, I meant to say, please pass the fucking margarine."

    I can tell you, I am glad I was not driving because I was laughing so hard it was almost uncontrollable, as were those boys.
    That was the first time I had heard her use that in a loooong time.

    Needless to say, that was a memorable lesson that they will not soon forget. Yes, Mrs Frog is quite adept at hopping on a teachable moment.

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  35. Nice story Froggie, I love that kind of humour.

    The only example that came to mind that united that style of word-play with religion is from Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back:

    Kid: Is that a fucking Bible?
    Jay (looking angry): Hey! It's the *Holy* fucking Bible, son!

    A film which, incidentally, had a cameo from George Carlin as a cocksucking hitch-hiker.

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  36.      The word "god" is a common noun, not a proper one. As I never use it as a name, it does not warrant capitalization. For all I am concerned, the biblical god is nameless.

    Whateverman:

         I'm not sure it would be very productive to applaud someone for his true dedication to the principle of conservation through disuse as exemplified by his application of said principle to cogent discourse.

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  37. [I don't know if you ever saw the picture but it was of a BIG COCK IN PLACE OF THE BANANA RIGHT ON RAY'S FACE!!!!! ha!]

    lol

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  38. Expat,
    Yes, I have sensed that we harbour a similar appreciation of humour, as defined by us.

    Mrs. Foggie sometimes refers to it as "dry" and "sick," yet she often jumps into the fray when I least expect it.

    We all have people that we can act goofy with, and get away with it, and those people become our "friends," I call them my "cronies." You would be one of them here.

    The Frog-O-Matic

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  39. MFT,

    Thanks. Good to see you got the point. :>

    ReplyDelete
  40. In World War II General Patton made a very aggregious Fax Paus and the media got down on him (he actually slapped a soldier that was injured: another story) so he invited a couple of them and some clergy members to come to his HQ and see him in person.

    The interview went very well until he took the clergy into his personal quarters to talk some more.

    One of the clergymen noticed a bible on the nightstand beside his bed and he asked the good general if he ever actually read it.

    Patton reponded, "Every Goddamned day." He meant it.

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  41. Expat,
    Now, having said that, us good atheists shall return to our normal routine of raping, pilliaging and plundering. Have fun!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Froggie,

    I'm delaying the IPO until our ownership of Hell is sufficiently profitable for the Faith. For that to happen, we need to start recruiting more Frodologists. If we get some older folk on board, we'll see more immediate returns. Maybe that's an idea to run with?

    Haha. Glad you're enjoying my modest contributions to the atheist landscape.

    ReplyDelete

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