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Thursday, November 27, 2008

Charles the Fundie?

I'm not sure how you guys will react to this. I'm not even sure how I'm reacting to it, since I missed it the first time.


The comment makes a little more sense in context, as a response to the "blow-up-teh-gay-kids" woman, but still... I'm so confused.

[Tentatively clicks "submit post"]


  1. Actually, that was informative reading the comments - almost all of them read the quote without any context, decided that they knew exactly what was going on and judged Charles accordingly (the "DIAF" comments win the ultimate irony award). This does show that a) just because you're an atheist doesn't mean that you don't pre-judge people (I already knew this, but it helps to be reminded every once in a while) and b) whilst most of the quotes on FSTDT are hard to take out of context, if something appears to be hateful / offensive / prejudiced then take a second to check it out in context before you form an opinion.
    One of the worst effects of the internet is the quote mine / misquote / Chinese whispers opportunities that it provides; check out the comments on this piece for an example - because the title says that the "god trumps" cards chicken out of critising Islam most of the commentors happily have a go at the "cowards" who don't dare stand up to Muslims out of fear. The only problem is, if you can be arsed to follow the link, you can see that Islam is effectively described as "bad for the purposes of society at large". Not exactly chickening out of critising, is it?

  2. You'll notice that noone has taken credit for submitting the quote.

    I'll lay you good money it was one of our favorites like jinx mcfucknuts or allfuckedup.

    See, we all know each other, and we know each others' styles and sense of humour; So when Charles posted for extermination of all relgiacs we knew he wasn't serious, just venting.

    Unfortunately it makes for easy ammo.

  3. Actually, thinking about it it could well have been Dani'EL or freed, since I had posted there that I was about to submit some of their insanity to fstdt.

    They had then been commenting to each other that they hadn't yet seen my submission appear at fstdt. So they have been spending time there.

    Dani'El is certainly mischievous enough to post something we've said there.

  4. Stew,

    Before you promised to post about us at FSTDT, I'd never heard of that website. I visited there that one time only and certainly didn't submit anything.

    When Charles made that similar post here at Raytractors I said all I had to say about it here, and then it became a forgotten subject.

    I'm not sure if your ID should be "hit-and-run instigator" or "the accuser". No, that is Satan. I think maybe "words people say policeman" will do.

  5. Hey Stew,

    This is super off topic, and feel free to say no, but I watched a documentary tonight about health care that spent a significant amount of time discussing the health care system in France. Would you mind if I emailed you some time and asked some questions about your opinion of the French health care system?

    Again, if that's too invasive just say the word and I'll totally understand. :O)

  6. ok freed, I'll go with that.

    I disagree just about 100% with your worldview, but I have no evidence that you tell lies.

    I believe you did not submit Charles' quote to fstdt.

    However, If Daniel were to say that he didn't do it, I would remain unconvinced, since he is not totally in touch with reality.

  7. Kelly, mail me at stewart dot paterson at tele2 dor fr

  8. Does this mean I have to quit killing fundies?

  9. I am with NM, it is too coincidental that he mentioned FSTDT just the other day.

  10. I get Charles may have been venting/being sarcastic, but that's still a pretty scary thing to say. Like anyone else here, I can sympathize with how frustrating it can be to argue with a fundie. However, that doesn't mean you have to go off with this "exterminate" business like you are some kind of dalek.

    I also can't see Freed sending the quote to FSTDT, especially if she said she didn't. She's really honest in my experience ("hi Freed!!"*virtually waves*)

    Also...was it really taken out of context much? I'm sure alot of the fundie quotes on FSTDT may have been fundies venting and not really being serious too (that still doesn't make it OK though). I'm a bit confused as to what I think about it too. It does disturb me that the Raytractors is on FSTDT. :(

  11. I do think that it is interesting to see the responses from this group.

    There seems to be a vague sense of embarrassment, mixed with some introspection regarding our own perception of the more traditional postings on FSTDT.

    It seems that however much we want to perceive ourselves as individual freethinkers, the tendency of humans to tribalize requires a significant intellectual effort to dispel. To avoid the 'us and them' mindset and look at a situation objectively.

    Inevitably this shines a spotlight on our own individual biases and preconceived ideas. How many of us have scrolled through FSTDT and laughed at the silly fundies without checking out the original sources?

    I think that the fact that we are analyzing this in a rational way (those of us without webbed feet, anyway!) says something, however. I have seen countless instances of fundies being quoted on FSTDT and their usual reaction is:
    a) persecution
    b) work of Satan/Satanists, in love with your sin, evil evolutionists etc..
    c) God working through the poster to bring more people to the forum (and therefore, Christ)
    d) taken out of context (often they are...but more often, they are not)

    I don't think I've ever seen a group of fundies get together and discuss whether or not a quote was over the line or inappropriate or anything of the sort. In fact, they hardly ever call each other on any discrepancy when there are heathens around to notice. This is the dishonesty that Ray personifies and it is the reason we are here in the first place.

    Congratulations Charles, you're keeping us thinking.


    Word Ver: Moses

  12. I remember seeing that post back in October and thinking at the time that it was a vile thing to say, even if said sarcasticly.

    I didn't post anything about it but, in retrospect, I should have.

    There is another poster that I am familiar with, from the Expelled blog, who now posts at Pharyngula by the name of bobc. He also seems to weigh in (as bobxxx) at any letter to the editor regarding intelligent design or creationism.

    While not specifically advocating genocide for theists, he comes dangerously close.

    While I do not advocate deleting these posts or posters, I think that it is incumbent upon the rest of the blog participants to decry such irrational attitudes, whether it comes from a theist, or a non-theist.

    In that spirit-

    Charles, that was an incredibly un-American and ignorant thing to say even if you were using sarcasm.

    And if, on the off chance that you actually feel that way, it reveals a horrific and dispicable way of thinking .

  13. To, add; I don't condone what Charles said or the sentiment behind it.


    I agree with your comment entirely - I'm just wondering; why the need for 'un-American'? Is it a uniquely defining American characteristic to not promote genocide? I'm pretty sure a couple of other countries feel the same way!

  14. Ahem. Sorry about that, folks. I had no idea. For the record, here's what I posted in response to the uproar over at FSTDT:

    "Wow, this is a surprise. I'm the the Charles who posted the above comment. The previous commentator here had it exactly right. My comment was indeed in response to a way out of hand religious bigot. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT ADVOCATE HUNTING DOWN AND KILLING ANYONE. Got it? I was being sarcastic, but I can see that out of context I sound like a nutjob. Such was not my intent. I was and am exasperated by fundies OF ANY KIND whose lack of education, reason and compassion have harmed this world so often. But the only responsible course of action to counter such folks is compassion, steadfast adherence to rational ethics, and outspoken advocacy of right living. Not stooping to their level.

    Whew. I hope that that clears things up."

    So anyone who thinks that I advocate genocide is wrong. Everyone who breathes has the potential for lovingkindness and enlightenment, even the woman in the YouTube video I was responding too. And I respect and honor the divine light in everyone. Even fundie nutjobs.

    But if you want to keep killing 'em, Froggie, be my guest.

  15. I though it was either loaf or freed seeing as they pointed out the hatefulness of his comment in the thread. It wasn't me though

  16. I've never been to the site, stew.

    And I don't know what you are talking about nor do I care.

    I forgive you for accusing me.

    Dani' El

  17. Charles,

    Have you had any replies from the guys at FSTDT?

    I think we all knew that nobody with abs like yours could ever commit genocide; you wouldn't have the time in-between all those crunches.

  18. Dani'El - you speak to Satan and say he wears Hawaiian shirts. And you think Satan likes Germans because they look like him.

    So your word, and opinion carry about as much weight with me as Mad Mike, the Maniacal Muppet of Macedonia.

  19. And I look forward to your continued comments on my blog stew.

    Shalom to you and yours,
    Dani 'El

  20. I look forward to the continuing farce.
    What's up next? How my landlord channelled Beelzebub? The day I saw a cab drivers head swivel 360 degrees? The time I was delivered from demonic posession of Abba's "Gimme, gimme, gimme"?

  21. "The time I was delivered from demonic posession of Abba's "Gimme, gimme, gimme"?"

    This actually happened to me. Long story

  22. Charels said'


    You sure?

  23. I hve a confession to make.

    Ah-hem... I loved Abba back in the day. The wonderfully sung melodies coneccted to those rich harmonies and the timbre of those mixed voices. I

    I didn't kill them.

  24. I didn't kill Pat Boone, either.

  25. You are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen
    Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine.....

  26. ..........ooooooooohhhhh yeah, you can dance you can jive having the time of your life....

  27. Stew said...
    "So your word, and opinion carry about as much weight with me as Mad Mike, the Maniacal Muppet of Macedonia."


    Honestly, anything happens and everyone's picking on Mike again. You know when he cries his fur gets soggy.

  28. Ex Pat Mat said-


    I agree with your comment entirely - I'm just wondering; why the need for 'un-American'? Is it a uniquely defining American characteristic to not promote genocide? I'm pretty sure a couple of other countries feel the same way!

    You are absolutely right. It is only that I don't feel qualified to speak about every country in the world, but I do feel qualified to relate an American position.

    Please don't interpret that as a "USA"centic attitude. It should have been qualified as being particularly, or highly un-American,or un-humanistic, or un-thinking, regarding personal freedoms and innate rights.

    Charles, I appreciate the clarification you posted.

    Now. leave the gun, take the canoli.


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