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Thursday, November 13, 2008

Genesis Contradictions - Chapter II

Well, it looks like our good buddy Ray has taken me up on my suggestion that he turn the "Genesis Contradictions" subject into a regular feature. His latest post addresses the contradiction that God apparently creates light before He creates a sun to generate said light.

Ray glibly dismisses the contradiction thusly:

EXPLANATION : God is light (1 John 1:5, Revelation 22:5). He eternally existed, before He created the Sun to give light to the earth.

Well, Ray, that interpretation may resolve the above contradiction, but in so doing, it introduces a whole mess of new ones. Let's look a little more closely at the passages in question:

Genesis 1:2-4

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness.

Now, if "God is light", why exactly would darkness be over the surface of the deep? If "God is light", and God has eternally existed, then it logically follows that light has eternally existed, and therefore, darkness could not be over the surface of the deep.

Also, why exactly would God need to speak light into being, if God is light?

Also, why would God have to see the light before concluding that it was good, if God Himself is light?

This is what happens when you try to make the case that an ancient primitive world creation myth is factually accurate, Ray. It's like trying to dig a hole in the sand at the water's edge...the harder and faster you dig, the more water pours in.


  1. Nice I actually missed that one while talking to jrk83.

    I just ask why have a sun if there is light without it.

  2. I just figured it out. He was creating the light from distant stars that wouldn't have time to reach us in 6000 years.

  3. If God is light, why did he bother with the sun and the moon?

    If God is light He could just light the place up with himself.

    (yes, the writers of Genesis thought the moon was an emitter of light)

  4. I like this one:
    14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; AND LET THEM BE FOR SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    This refers to astrology

    One more:
    26: And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
    Hmmmm, Now just how many Gods were there?

  5. Quite a few Froggie, as I am sure you know that the Hebrews borrowed from the Babylonians. YHWH and Elohim are two different gods. El rules over YHWH and this is mentioned in one passage, I will have to find it though.

  6. And God said...

    Who's he talking to?

  7. When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.

    Deuteronomy 32:8-9

    "Most High" here is Elyon or Elohim.

    "the Lord" is YHWH

  8. As Ray would ask, "How could something make itself out of nothing?"

  9. Beam,
    From what I can see, it took over 1300 years for the Hebrews to settle into, or better yet, to evolve their only one God belief.

    But they never got away without the other Gods and thus the trinity.

    I wish some non-trinitarian christian would crash this party, but they are few and far between.

  10. Geoff said...
    As Ray would ask, "How could something make itself out of nothing?"

    Well, that is when humans start philosiphising about the concept of eternity, which is what kids do in their freshman tear in college.

    Then, if they are honest, they say, shit, that is something we probably cannot know,, and then they move on, rather than get stuck in sone theological mode where they want to believe in irrational systems. Go to Bible College and learn how to explain away all these rational questions by cartwheeling from verse to verse in the bible.

  11. beamstalk - rocky s. said...
    When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.

    Deuteronomy 32:8-9

    Nice! Which Bible is this one?

  12. wow. Two dozen posts and not a single believer applauding or even attempting to make sense of it, let alone reply to the poor lost atheists's questions.
    I think Ray is under jet lag. He'll probably reread the post he wrote once he's slept it out, slam his head onto his desk, pick one or two sentences and make a lame attempt at humor, then post eight new entries to shove it off the front page. Or delete the whole thing.

    If neither Ray nor any of his sycophants can manage to come up with even a half-assed evasion of an obfuscation of a non-answer, it would effectively invalidate the whole sense of understanding the Bible literally word for word. There's no way they'll let it stand. They're probably right now frantically scouring the web for some convoluted apologetic to weasel out of this.
    Maybe they'll use some butt-pulled translation of Hebrew á la Hugh Ross, or try to pull irrelevant tertiary definitions of words from dictionaries to piece something together.
    I can almost predict something like 'in Hebrew, this word can have five meanings, and I'm certain this one must be correct, and in the next sentence the other one is correct...'

    Or, the usual lame claim that you can't understand it if you don't believe it first.

  13. Vagon,

    That is from the NRSV. If I don't say which version, that is the version. The translation is still not perfect. The word YHWH is translated to "the Lord".

    "The Most High" is the word !wyla which is 'elyown.
    2.Highest, Most High
    a. name of God
    b. of rulers, either monarchs or angel-princes

    So two very different distinct Gods here. Like Froggie said, it took a long time for the Hebrews to become monotheistic.

  14. Incidentally, has anyone considered that creationism may just be a fallacy hinged on an incorrect interpretation of the verb 'to let'?

    'To let' something happen means to refrain from taking positive action to prevent it from happening, and implies no constructive role in bringing that thing about.

    Thus when God said 'let there be light', could he not have just been voicing his agreement that the sun could do an admirable job on its own, without his interference?

  15. Frodo,
    Very interesting!
    Lemme think on this......


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