And mangles it, chews it up and quotes many here in the process...
http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/1108/WOTMR-11-11-08-Hour1.mp3
WARNING: Contains nuts.
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Any post or comment represents solely the viewpoints of the original poster. If you would like to use them or reference them on your own site (this means you, Ray), you must provide a link back to "http://raytractors.blogspot.com," (if you are able) and preferably the link should point to the actual blog post that you are referencing.
Wow, I've never listened to a christian podcast (except for a few minutes of "Fool Proof", which was only because I found a DVD of that broken in pieces in my pool), this guy really is nuts. His voice alone disgusts me, he sounds so self righteous and condescending.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, and he conveniently leaves out the few comments from Christians who agree that Jean is emotionally abusing her daughter (well, I couldn't listen to the entire thing, but got more than halfway through it and didn't hear him mention the comments from Christians.)
ReplyDeleteHe's an asshat!! He didn't even cover the whole story! The best quote (paraphrased) "we don't need self-worth we have god-worth which is better" (or something similar)...Nietzsche said that this kind of Christian thinking leads to nihilism, I'm starting to agree!!
ReplyDeleteWow...
ReplyDeleteThey REALLY over-do production there, don't they?
Teaching children that they aren't perfect, and teaching children that they are nasty horrible things, are completely different ideas.
It's been a while since I've been told that I'm not really a Christian. I was beginning to wonder if I'd done something wrong.
Open Theism: my thing. Open Theism doesn't say that God isn't omnipotent. It simply says that God choses not to do everything he's capable of doing.
Doesn't believe in Original sin: also my thing. I'd like to see some Biblical backing for Original sin that doesn't include some assumption that we aren't allowed to make.
I have to give him some props for the thing he said about the Photographer working a homosexual wedding. There's nothing wrong with the guy working there, Biblically, as long as it doesn't mess with his conscience.
Is it too much to expect a parent to be able to teach their child the difference between self-worth and hubris? Between confidence and arrogance?
ReplyDeleteApparently it is, because the only True way to do right by your kids it to bitch-slap them with Hell's firey consequences if they wet their bed one more time. Apparently.
Did he (mis)quote me? I don't have the inclination to listen.
ReplyDeleteAre they using the "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" theme tune in the first bit? Isn't that kinda illegal?
ReplyDeleteRob, you're not a true Christian.
ReplyDeleteFeel better? No charge.
"God chooses not to do everything he's capable of doing."
Bit of a procrastinator, eh? I can relate to that guy.
@ expatmatt:
ReplyDeleteNo, no, that only works when a REAL Christian says it to me.
To basically cut openness theism down to it's most basic idea, God is absolutely capable of knowing and ordaining every aspect of the future, but chooses not to know and ordain every aspect of the future and instead gives us the freedom of will to make choices and create the future with him.
That's a better explanation for "Why does God regret making decisions," than "well, he doesn't REALLY regret them, he's just not all that happy that it has to happen that way.
Friel said, "Christians you are not abusing your children!"
ReplyDeleteHow does he know that? I was raised in a christian home and I was abused. The way he said it sounded almost like, "Christians do not abuse children."
Yes, Todd, many children are abused by christians. They even justify that abuse with the bible. Abused children become adults that are unprepared for life on their own. They often hate themselves and people around them. Sometimes they live years of depression (like I did). I still haven't gotten over my abuse completely. I probably never will.
Robert,
ReplyDeleteThat was a very compelling comment.
I know people who went through the same thing. I consider you heroic for being able to express your experience, and to overcome it.
Thank you.
@Rob penn
ReplyDeleteI'm a molinist.I hate open theism because it destroys the absolute sovereignty of god for an anthropocentric view.Things about god's plan and god's chosen people dont make sense unless you have a god that can foreordain.
He read my comment yay!!!!
ReplyDeleteRob Penn and MrFreeThinker,
ReplyDeleteIt seems like you have a pretty fundamental difference of opinion going on there; any scripture to back your respective positions up?
@ Mr. Free Thinker:
ReplyDelete@Rob penn
I'm a molinist.I hate open theism because it destroys the absolute sovereignty of god for an anthropocentric view.Things about god's plan and god's chosen people dont make sense unless you have a god that can foreordain.
Agreed. And I don't believe that God can't foreordain things. I believe that he lets us chose certain things, and that he ordains certain things.
Not that he can't do these things, but that some times he chooses not to. That he doesn't do at times doesn't mean he hasn't the power to do.
For instance, when Israel said they wanted a King. God said "No, you don't," and tried to convince them, but he changed his plan any way and gave them Saul. Why does God turn around and say "I wish that I hadn't made him king?" He doesn't say "This is not fun, but it's for the best," nor does he say "This will lead my people to their place in my plan." He regrets his decision; he wishes that he hadn't made it.
"I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands." And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the LORD all night.
1 Samuel 15:11
Why is that?
He also says that about creating man (Genesis 6:6-7). He had planned on destroying Israel, and was sorry for that plan and then changed his mind (1 Chronicles 21:15).
But he turns around in several places, tells his people what's going to happen in the future, and low-and-behold there it is in the future! Clearly, he's not incapable of ordaining the future, but the regret that he shows in places shows that he isn't in some places. He put Saul on the throne, and didn't regret that action until after Saul stopped doing what God told him.
This doesn't affect God's omniscience, either. God still knows everything that there is to know. The future hasn't happened yet, it's not in existence, it's not there for an omniscient being to know.
As for God's chosen people, God definitely calls and choses his people before they choose him. But they still have a choice. That's why Paul says things like "Don't you know that you chose who your master is by whom you chose to serve?" in his letters. It's not that God just chooses us. God calls every human to know and have a relationship with him, and those who answer the call with a "yes" are called his chosen.
Say you're playing a football game. You have some strategies as to how your team should play. Then you call every one here to come be on your team. Muffin, Revenant, and Maragon say "yeah, I'll be there," while Adrian Hayter, Robert Madwell, and Froggie say "nope, I have stuff to do." When the three get there, you say "Ok, I want you, you, and you to be on my team."
God, some time ago, said "I will have a people all my own, from many nations. They will look like this, and they will act like this (if they're doing what I tell them to) and they will get these kind of cool things."
He called every human. Some said yes, some said no. Every one who answered his call, he called "chosen."
@ ExPatMatt:
ReplyDeleteOpen Theism doesn't have any scripture that says "God works openly like this." It has scripture that says, "God does this, God allows man to do this, God tells people to do this," and puts two and two together.
My mentor once told me that people have been trying for a long time to poke holes in this idea in lots of peer-review journals and privately (including him), and it seems to hold it's own in theologist circles.