From the article: "The sign at Spirit One Christian Center reads, "America we have a Muslim president. This is sin against the Lord."
Jesus Freaking Christ on a stick, people!! Just how damn idiotic does a person have to be to believe debunked political rumors like this? Apparently just stupid enough to be the preacher at this church.
It's great, however, that he is advertising his utter lack of brain activity. It helps when the stupid let you know who they are in advance.
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"It helps when the stupid let you know who they are in advance."
ReplyDeleteGood point. Things like this will only push hard right wingers farther into Burtonland, where their political influence will weaken because of their blatant insanity.
Here's a good op-ed that makes a similar point about Fox News:
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=6701
"Just how damn idiotic does a person have to be to believe debunked political rumors like this?"
ReplyDeleteI'd say on the level of accepting invisible sky faeries for reality and basing their live... oh wait...
nm and geoff, Right on.
ReplyDeleteThis is the Republican base. The good pastor might as well have said,
"America, I am an ignorant, un-American bonehead. This is a sin against Humanity."
I proudly voted to re-elect the only Muslim in Congress, Keith Ellison. He understands we have a secular government and it protects his beliefs as well as non believers and the beliefs of Pastor Prick.
Keep talking, fundies, keep talking.
Also, I forgot to add that I was completely unaware that Bush is Muslim.
ReplyDeleteThe word "stupid" really doesn't describe the situation accurately. This is because he's willfully choosing to perpetuate the fallacy.
ReplyDeleteLet's face facts: most of the people the Raytractors disagree with appear to be intentionally disabling the feedback they'd get from their brains. If that lump of flesh isn't sprinkling every thought with the words "jesus" and "sin" and "salvation" and "repent", they appear to regard it as part of their fallen nature - and thus worthy of being ignored.
These tools are happily "being stupid for Jesus". They don't care what you think, they don't care if what they're doing doesn't appear to make sense - it's all part of the plan to show America just exactly how doomed we are.
Few things are more dangerous than people who want to change society for the good of society - in spite of what society wants.
I remember seeing on local news that the republicans wanted to get back to their party's base. They then went on to say they may do this with Sarah Palin leading the charge.
ReplyDeleteThe stoopid. It boyns.
ReplyDeletetilia said...
ReplyDeleteI never really understood why it should be a problem if Obama was a muslim.
I do understand. It's the same reflexive, paranoid bigotry that led us to inter Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor. Authoritarian Conservatives need a boogyman to frighten the masses. Muslims are the current boogymen.
Also, our media gives far too much credence to the influence of the religious right. They have done more than anyone to promote the Muslim stereotypes.
Like I said earlier, my rep in Congress is Muslim. You would be shocked at the vitriol hurled at him the first time he ran. This election cycle, not a peep. Their fear mongering didn't work.
Hopefully, this is a trend. I'm also confident that when Pres. Obama meets with your Chancellor he won't try to give her a back rub.
Uhh, this phrase was very offensive: "Jesus Freaking Christ on a stick".....he was on two sticks, thank you.
ReplyDeletetilia said...
ReplyDeleteI never really understood why it should be a problem if Obama was a muslim.
Here in the US anybody who isn't Christian is considered a threat. Hell, if you're not the right version of Christian you're considered a threat. Back in 1960 a lot of people didn't like John F. Kennedy being president because he was Catholic. People were claiming that the Pope would be running the country.
tilia,
ReplyDeleteMerkel is the daughter of a pastor and she's Christian - but as is well-known she's also a Physicist. She did push for including God in the EU Constitution, but let it go when the majority were against it. I might even vote for her if she doesn't fuck up until the next election, and unless the other candidates aren't very convincing; so far I think she performs better than I had expected. She doesn't suffer nuttiness in politics well. I like how she keeps the right-wingers of her party in check.
craig,
ReplyDeleteObama and Merkel have already met once. The chemistry looked good, and I think they share a lot of values and (mostly) rational thinking. Of course economy and trade issues are always a bit tense between the EU and the US, but everything else they stand for seems in line pretty well.
Clostridiophile said...
ReplyDeleteUhh, this phrase was very offensive: "Jesus Freaking Christ on a stick".....he was on two sticks, thank you
Holy fucking Christmas Jew he is right....
felix,
ReplyDeleteYes, I remember the Middle East, Europe tour last summer. Wasn't there some tension over Obama wanting to speak in front of Brandenburg Gate?
The Repubs actually tried to use that whole trip against him. Something about his European values. Imagine, a U.S. president popular with our allies. Couldn't have that.
At least Obama didn't try to grope her, did he?
Technically, he was asked to speak by a local government official (rather than him trying to turn it into an opportunity to grandstand). That should have put the Repubs' teeth gnashing into perspective, but perhaps I'm naive for thinking that facts should trump politics.
ReplyDeleteTilia,
ReplyDeleteTo get an idea of how much of a defacto requirement being Christian is to be president, check out the transcript to a forum that Obama and McCain participated in just a few months before the election. It was conducted by a preacher and the audience was the preacher's congregation:
Saddleback Forum
Here's one question from it:
"Now, you’ve made no doubts about your faith in Jesus Christ. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to you to trust in Christ? And what does that mean to you on a daily basis? What does that really look like?"
Felix,
ReplyDeleteDuring elections, how much do candidates in Germany play up their religious beliefs? Do they do what many American candidates do, which is to bend over backwards to demonstrate how strongly Christian they are? Do they get asked straightforwardly religious questions in debates and interviews?
Some people criticized our mayor for the Obama invitation, since they saw it as an opportunistic move to ingratiate (imagine that) himself with young and liberal voters (who had voted for him anyway). We have a tense situation in Berlin, with a narrow majority far-left/ social democrat house of reps, often opposed by Greens, Liberal party and conservatives. And of course there was also criticism because of the huge security efforts, which is admittedly a somewhat fair point being about taxpayer money for what was essentially a campaign appearance.
ReplyDeleteBe unafraid, the only thing Obama 'groped' was the chancellor's hand. I'm not sure if our mayor (openly gay) was attracted to Obama, but he's in a years-lasting faithful relationship with a physician. ;)
geoff,
ReplyDeletequestions about their religion are never asked as far as I'm aware. The only politicians showing their religious faith in any meaningful way are the southern German conservatives, of course not least to pander to conservative Catholics. The only time religion comes into the discussion in debates and tv panels is when it's about religion anyway, as in discussions about muslim headscarves, crosses in schools or papal visits. Nobody but extremely conservative Catholics really cares, and there are virtually no fundy Protestants in numbers remotely attractive to pander to.
For example, we had a small scandal when one cardinal said he found the new church art in his city's cathedral 'degenerate' (the same word in German the nazis used). It's just common modern art with the usual abstract depictions. He received massive flak from top politicians as well as a large number of moderate Catholics. Efforts of pro-ID advocates never got off ground anywhere, the most notable event being tacit endorsement by one state's education senator, which failed. In practice, almost all politicians are indistinguishable from atheists, and even the attempt to pass blasphemy laws in arch-Catholic Bavaria failed, in spite of being postulated by their governor.
Federal law allows homosexual civil partnership in all states, and full equality to marriage is guaranteed in all matters except for tax breaks.
Of course the main churches are advantaged by partially mandatory RE, tax-exemption and governmental aids, so they generally sit in a very comfortable financial position - any fuss they make has the disadvantage that it will alienate a lot of voters, and their membership numbers are constantly declining already. So they mostly stick to making vague statements about ethics and what they find discomforting about modern society.
btw, the word verification for this post is: nuter.
I puzzles why Americans care that they think Obama has ties to Islam and nobody points out that he had a preacher like Jeremiah Wright.
ReplyDeleteFelix,
ReplyDeletedo you remember if somebody thought it was a big deal that at least half of our former government (the Schröder one) took the oath of office without saying 'may God help me'? I just noticed and I thought it was funny...
Mrfreethinker,
ReplyDeleteAre you sure nobody pointed it out? I seem to remember it being in the news for at least forever.
Anything to try and paint his faith in a bad light and portray McCain / Palin as the 'Christian Party'
I like what Bill Maher said (paraphrased):
"If there were videotape of Barack Obama receiving magic protection from a black witch doctor, this election would be over....but there is that tape of Sarah Palin."
nobody points out that he had a preacher like Jeremiah Wright.
ReplyDeleteYou obviously don't read any right-wing blogs and/or watch Fox News. Trust me, people have been pointing it out ad nauseum.
tilia,
ReplyDeleteyeah, I hadn't taken particular notice of that either. The oath with religious addendum is voluntary in Germany. Notice how it's not considered to be the default anymore. I find it weird how our policies and laws are sometimes so very secular and then again so reverent to religion in other areas. As if it only took a number of people to complain...
[You obviously don't read any right-wing blogs and/or watch Fox News.]
ReplyDeleteOh sorry guys. I guess I've been watching only liberal media.
But doesn't that bother anyone?
MFT asked But doesn't that bother anyone?
ReplyDeleteOnly a little bit. And all things being equal, I would be just as minimally disturbed if McCain's pastor were found to be a firey speaker.
On the other hand, if Obama had made a lot of noise about "small town values", or Christian Family Values, or had generally put his religion on display (as if it made his a better candidate for the White House, I would feel differently. I would have been cause to really put his faith under the microscope - which would have brought his pastor into sharper focus.
Incidentally, Republicans stereotypically pander to the Christian demographic than do the Democrats in this country. Although I did see McCain living up to the stereotype to a degree, even he kept it low profile. I respected his a bit for this.
Simply put, In regards to public office, if you want to point to your religion as it being part of your character, more power to you. If you want to claim it defines who you are, be prepared to have it scrutinized very carefully...
(imho)
Kathleen Parker writing in the Washington Post thie morning:
ReplyDeleteAs Republicans sort out the reasons for their defeat, they likely will overlook or dismiss the gorilla in the pulpit.
Three little letters, great big problem: G-O-D.
I'm bathing in holy water as I type.
To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh.
Craig wrote To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I like to make fun of conservative right-wingers and fundamentalists in general, I'm not sure I agree with you on this.
I think that religious conservativism in one party here (in the US) might be acceptable to those with differing religious beliefs. It'd have to be situational, of course: it'd depend on the issue du jour, how the party reacted to it, current public opinion of it, etc.
For example, although I'm sure it wasn't acceptable to Christians (generally), Mitt Romney belongs to a religion with some fairly extreme ideas. And yet, while he was governor here in MA, his religion really didn't define his administration. He was simply a decent politician who happened to be a Mormon.
The Repubs could pull off the same kind of campaign & candidate. If only they wouldn't pretend that their past actions are partially responsible for the mess we're in.
IOW: I think they failed due to being unable to speak to the public without obviously trying to hide the fiasco of the last 8 years.
"Just how damn idiotic does a person have to be to believe debunked political rumors like this?"
ReplyDeleteUh, idiotic enough to believe that a book of stories and fables written by a bunch of Bronze Age, Middle Eastern men is the literal, inerrant word of God?
EDIT:
ReplyDelete"If only they wouldn't pretend that their past actions are not partially responsible for the mess we're in."
Craig wrote To be more specific, the evangelical, right-wing, oogedy-boogedy branch of the GOP is what ails the erstwhile conservative party and will continue to afflict and marginalize its constituents if reckoning doesn't soon cometh.
ReplyDeletewem,
I should have put quotes around it but that was from the Kathleen Parker column.
While I generally agree with you, I thought this quote fit the thread nicely. I think her point is that the Republican party has become identified with older, white evangelicals to the exclusion of more "reasonable" Christians, young people and minorities. It's about branding and their brand is tainted by the likes of Pastor Cowlick.
Ah - well then, I guess I agree with you entirely, Craig. The Republicans have definitely maginalized themselves.
ReplyDelete