Ray's back from his trip to Europe and, no, the travel does not appear to have broadened his mind.
Among the - it has to be said - really poorly written blog posting (honestly Ray, take a writing course or something), were a couple of Comfort Classics;
Apparently la Galerie de l'Evolution was "...packed full of stuffed animals that God had created" and, "The only "evidence" of evolution was a stuffed image of the discredited “Lucy” and a copy of Origin of Species."
To sum up;
"Believers in the theory have encouraged me to visit museums to see proof of transitional forms. The evidence was less than pathetic."
So there you have it; evolution is bunk and God has a part-time job supplying stuffed animals to French museums.
Ray: we've missed you!
Cheers,
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He went to the Louvre, I didn't think it was possible to dislike him more! The lucky bastard gets to tour around France because he's some hack preacher selling self-hatred and "salvation"...I'm converting! Anyone want to buy my books??
ReplyDeleteP.S. If he goes to Italy and sees the Sistine Chapel my head might explode (although I doubt he would, I can't imagine him going to a 'Roman cult' church)!!
P.P.S "had the thrill of interviewing one man in front of the Mona Lisa"--Did you at least look at the Mona Lisa?! It was right there and all you write about is a fucking interview??
*(Sry but art/art history is a little passion of mine)
Regarding la Galerie de l'Evolution- (By the way, Ray, it is spelled with "l", not two.)
ReplyDeletefrom How to tour the Grande Galerie de l'Evolution in Paris.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2170411_grande-galerie-de-levolution-paris.html
The third floor is devoted to the history of and latest discoveries in evolution, natural selection, genetics, anatomy, paleontology and molecular biology. This floor also features the most charming display in the whole museum: a mounted giraffe, craning his neck over the balcony railing, as if to marvel at the vast and impressive array of nature spread out below him.
I guess Ray didn't make it up that far.
Kinda a let down from Ray's usual. Just as irritating and ignorant, but now he's boring as well. What can we do with him?
ReplyDeleteExcept set him on fire and feed the blackened remains to the hyenas.
I'm joking, of course. But it would be pretty cool if someone did do it.
revenant,
ReplyDeleteI went to the Vatican a couple of years ago and had a look at the paint-job on the ceiling; not bad, I must say, not bad at all.
There are far more impressive churches in Italy though, much smaller and more intimate - the Vatican's like the EuroDisney of churches.
benjamin f,
"The third floor is devoted to the history of and latest discoveries in evolution, natural selection, genetics, anatomy, paleontology and molecular biology."
Like Ray said; there's a stuffed 'Lucy' model.
Expatmatt
ReplyDeleteI'm so jealous! There are so many sites in Italy I want to see! The Sistine Chapel is the main one; along with St. Peter's in Rome for the Pieta! I'm a huge Michelangelo fan!!
I've just asked him to tell us in what way Lucy is discredited and detailed the standard creotard lines and debunked 'em.
ReplyDeleteLet's see what horseshit he comes back with, eh?
Charles:
ReplyDeleteI assume you're kidding, of course, but "Except set him on fire and feed the blackened remains to the hyenas.
I'm joking, of course. But it would be pretty cool if someone did do it." reminds me of the homeschooling mom who wrote something like she didn't advocate it, but if someone blew up a gay school she wouldn't have a problem with it. Something like that. It seems kinda the same to me.
What you wrote over at Ray's on his new post about how he's looking for a whole number between 6 and 7 was great. That's what he wants. Either out of ignorance, or because he knows real evidence of evolution is out there.
I've changed my mind. Ray has returned to his usual levels of imbecilitude. Check this out, in response to germanmike saying he didn't believe Ray's claim that he'd managed to do an interview an individual in front of the Mona Lisa (a pretty crowded spot, it seems).
ReplyDelete"Mike...that's the common misconception of the average atheist. He thinks something isn't true or doesn't exist, just because he doesn't believe it."
Just when you think he's laid off the stupid sauce for a while ...
rufus,
ReplyDeleteThanks, and yes, I'm kidding. The veins in my forehead do tend to bulge sometimes at the shear weight and volume of stupidity that comes flooding out of the swamp of fundiedom, but I don't really advocate setting anyone on fire. I'm mindful of my carbon footprint, after all.
Its obvious that Ray's minions are bordering on brainwash. I did some quick searching on cults and found a nice exerpt that I thought I'd apply. I do need your help for one of the points though, not that I suppose its necessary to fill all criteria.
ReplyDeleteDr. Robert J. Lifton’s 8 Criteria for Thought Reform
Environmental Control - The purposeful limitation of all forms of communication with the outside world. Such as all posts requiring capitilisation to exist on his blog. Rings true with VenomFangX of YouTube fame and probably the best Ray can do in the information age.
Mystical Manipulation - Extensive personal manipulation is used to provoke specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that they will appear to have arisen spontaneously. Do you consider yourself a good person?.. gotta love the tracts
The Demand for Purity - The world is sharply divided between pure and impure with the group in the role of ultimate judge. Normal urges and tendencies become sins, and shame is used to control. Needs no comment.
Confession - Carried beyond its ordinary expressions to the point of becoming a cult itself. This enhances the group’s hold upon the person and their guilt; is an act of symbolic self-surrender; is a means of maintaining a tone of total exposure; and makes it impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility. You are all guilty! Make sure you tell your kids they are too!
The aura of Sacred Silence - Prohibiting any questioning of the basic dogma, the cult’s laws, regulations and rules are absolute and must be followed. I am the one true god, you shall love no other god before me...
Loading the language - Characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most complex of problems are compressed into brief, definitive sounding phrases, easily memorized and expressed. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Doctrine Over Persons - The value of an individual member is insignificant compared to the value of the group. I cant find a solid case here.
Dispensing of Existence - The cult environment draws a sharp line between those whose right to existence can be reorganized and those who possess no such right. The religious cult draws a sharp line between not only those who will or will not be saved but other individuals and groups who are not acceptable. Only the banana loving Christians are saved! Those nasty Catholics/Muslims/Deists/Atheists[etc] will never make it.
Source: Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich, "Cults in Our Midst", copyright 1995, John Wiley and Sons Inc., pp. 69-74
vagon,
ReplyDeletethat is a difficult approach when you look at this type of believer. They claim no unified membership except under the supernatural. They claim not to follow a specific doctrine of any church, so the best case you can make is show cultish behavior where no defined cult exists. I hope my comments help.
Environmental Control - in this case, it's a self-imposed segregation, by avoiding material that could put the worldview into question, flat-out denial, and avoiding difficult communication by avoiding specific questions or just leaving an open discussion when the conclusion looks inconvenient, then starting over with the same approach, hoping for a more favorable result. Communication within closed circles through frequent mass-mailing of messages to reinforce the mindset. Talking to the pastor or minister instead of the secular expert.
Mystical Manipulation - repetition of specific scriptural verses on cue (The fool...), 'triggered' formation of prayer circles at sign of distress.
The Demand of Purity - I would expect their evasion to be that God, not they (the group) are the ultimate judge. Of course looking at it rationally reveals that to be a cop-out - since they claim to get revelation of scriptural correctness through faith, the 'revelation' bit is another evasion to mask the fact the evaluation is determined through the material brain, i.e. experience of conscience. So it depends, as with the other points, on whom you want to present the list to and if you are willing to defend it against a fundy-theistic viewpoint.
Confession - this doesn't equate to imposture of guilt directly. They are required to confess only to teh Lord. But it is correct that they will be indirectly coerced to confess, by constantly calling their 'goodness' into a question, a question that has only one accepted answer.
The aura of Sacred Silence - I would be more fundy-specific here. Not just the word of God, but the literal or plain sense reading of it, not open to interpretation as metaphor or allegory. The absolute is presupposed and claimed as syllogism without accounting for the premise.
Loading the Language - again, to be fundy-specific: The Good Person Test, Hate the sin..., The fool has said in his heart, etc.
Doctrine over Persons - not so much the value of the group, but that of the supernatural goal of an afterlife and submission to God counts. It amounts to the same thing, deny the shared doctrine, and you're a 'false convert' and fail the goal. For an atheist, the 'praying for you' theme looks like a cop-out, i.e. doing nothing while pretending to help. When you look at comments addressing someone apparently in need of help or encouragement (ex. Jean's blog), the expression of personal empathy and helpful advice is replaced by quotes from scripture and closing the ranks against outsiders. This might well dull empathy over time, as it overrides the need to formulate personal ideas and feelings, omitting criticism.
Dispensing of Existence - this one is very clear as you say. I would add that the right to exist is a given, but existence proceeds into eternal torture for the out-group.
That's all I can think of right now.
that's typical for Ray. The name of the museum still is "Natural history museum" or "Museum national d'histoire naturelle"
ReplyDeleteThe evolution gallery is just a small part of it. And the gallery is not there to prove evolution but to give us a picture.
I wonder if he would go o a museum that shows the human genome printed out
Hmmm. Not that it couldn't still appear, but I'm a little surprised as to why Ray seems to have surpressed my lengthy Lucy post complete with standard Creotard claims and debunkings.
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm not surprised - it's classic Comfort. I am disapointed though.
"Doctrine Over Persons - The value of an individual member is insignificant compared to the value of the group. I cant find a solid case here."
ReplyDeleteMy irony meter is on the blink this morning. I trust this is tongue in cheek..?
If not, er... Terry?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was in the Louvre there was a throng of people in front of the Mona Lisa - and ANYONE with a camera was being yanked out by the huge security guards. The gallery is strictly 'no cameras' - so I don't know how Comfort managed to film an interview...
ReplyDeleteBut that is not really the point - he goes to the Louvre and writes NOTHING of his reactions to the art on display. Is he so fixated, so tunnel-visioned that he cannot appreciate the wondrous works on display?
He writes a blog called 'Atheist Central' - goes to Paris, home of some of the greatest science, art and philosophy to have been produced by this curious animal called 'man' - and he puts together a stream of meaningless insults aimed at a scientific theory he does not really understand...
If man is anything he is curious and driven to discover all he can about himself, his environment and his existence... The science, art and philosophy on display in Paris is a testament to that fact...
If Ray is anything, he is a sham of a teacher, an empty vessel of a thinker and an artist devoid of creativity. Why? Because his reach extends no further than 'God did it'.
And if he is missing all of that, the question has to be asked, really, what kind of 'man' is Ray Comfort?
Holy shit, this guy is so easy to parody! Check it out:
ReplyDeletebenjamin f said,
"The third floor is devoted to the history of and latest discoveries in evolution, natural selection, genetics, anatomy, paleontology and molecular biology."
and I replied in jest;
"Like Ray said; there's a stuffed 'Lucy' model."
on November 12, 2008 4:51 PM
That very same day, at around the same time Quasar said this at Atheist Central;
"I'm sad you let your prejudices get in the way when you visited the museum: for some strange reason I was under the impression that "The third floor is devoted to the history of and latest discoveries in evolution, natural selection, genetics, anatomy, paleontology and molecular biology."
To which, Ray replied in all seriousness;
"That's where they had Lucy. That was their third floor display."
On November 12, 2008 7:37 PM,
Bam!
Matthew, my answer to what is Ray is simple. He is a man that seeks attention and money. I love the whole well I look like I am poor act, but that has been shown to be a shame with tax filings of his nonprofit group. If he really has nothing to hide he wouldn't delete those every time they are posted on his little blog.
ReplyDeletedammit sham not shame....
ReplyDeleteFor anyone expecting a retraction from Ray regarding his claim that 'Lucy' has been discredited:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/knee-joint.html
Of the 18 creationists (Ray isn't included) who have used the claim that Lucy is a fake/hoax/lie/mis-classification etc, over the years, only 3 have issued a retraction.
We can but hope.
Well, someone at Ray's has posted a one liner from me that predates all of the posts from people claiming to have proof that supports the view that Lucy is discredited. This pretty much proves that Ray has no intention of posting my long post which was written a good period of time prior to the one he has published.
ReplyDeleteEvery one of those "proofs" was predicted and debunked before they were even written in my long post Ray has seen fit not to publish.
What a decent and honourable man Ray is.
Cunt.
Thanks Felix!
ReplyDeletevagon,
ReplyDeleteI just watched the Atheist Experience show #578, where they discuss 'Scamlets', how religions and cults manipulate people. There are several things in there for you.