Censorship is alive and well at "Atheist Central".

Ray, replying to a comment by "Christ Follower" on the "Welcome to the Real World" thread, writes:

CF...your comments will not be posted in future until you change your name. Thanks.

In case you're wondering, here's the comment from CF that drew Ray's ire:

I was a bible-believing Christian for years. It wasn't until I started thinking and actually checking its claims that the scales fell off my eyes. I desperately tried to believe, it would have been much easier if I did, but no amount of wishing would change the fact that Christianity is just NOT TRUE.

Well, now, isn't that interesting. This comment doesn't violate Ray's ridiculous "rules" in any way, and something tells me that someone called "Christ Follower" that was on Ray's side would be encouraged to post all they wanted.

So why can't CF post anymore? This follow-up question from "Rob Penn" (a question to which CF is now unable to respond) holds the answer:

Just a question, CF.

Why do you call yourself Christ Follower if you do not believe that Christianity is true?

CF has some of the more reasonable theists asking questions. It's only a matter of time before they start thinking for themselves, and that's the bane of any religion, especially Ray-Comfortism.

Today's Theist Memory Verse...

Emily said...

"C Diddy, you are just posting to argue, cherry picking from the Bible scripture you have obviously never studied and can't understand. You really have no idea how silly atheists look when they're quoting scripture. It's both laughable and embarassing (sic) because you have no idea what you're talking about, and there's no point in explaining for reasons that would take too long to explain.

Have you ever watched someone make a total fool of themselves, and you cringe yet you can't look away, because you are just so EMBARASSED (sic) for them? Well that's how it frequently feels when atheists post scripture.

Suffice it to say, you are completely in error and you look rather foolish. I'd recommend you refrain from quoting Bible verses if you would like to avoid looking foolish in the future.

August 1, 2008 10:47 AM"

Ok, so replace 'atheist' with 'creationist' and 'scripture' with 'science' and you've pretty much got it right. Makes me think of pots and kettles...

I must say though, I don't always think it is the right tactic to use scripture against fundies - in their eyes it only lends veracity to that which you're trying to refute. Still, this made me laugh.

Now if we could just find Flinging Dust, my day would be complete...

I don't think the Bible says what you think it says....

Woohoo, my first post on Raytractors, here goes...

Vera posted this miraculous piece of scripture-twisting over in Raytown (Ignorant Knuckle-draggers post):

"For example, there used to be land bridges that connected Russia and Alaska and Australia with Asia. This is also mentioned in the Bible (Genesis 10:25)"

And, of course, when you check it out, Genesis 10:25 says:

Two sons were born to Eber; the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. - New American Standard Bible


And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. - King James Bible

I clearly don't have Vera's knack for 'discernment' or, as I like to call it, 'making shit up as you go along'. Can someone please explain to me how the human mind can convince itself of this tripe?

I so nearly posted a reply, but I stood strong despite the temptation (if only some diety would commit suicide so I wouldn't have to worry about temptation anymore, eh?)

Viva la Rayvolution

Fun with Analogies

Bing McGhandi over at Happy Jihad's House of Pancakes* coined the following in his post of yesterday:

"Ron Carlson is to evolution what Paris Hilton is to circumspect modesty; they know nothing of one another."

This inspired me to come up with similar formulations:

"Vera is to science what aphasia is to speech: The greater the effort, the more complete the garblage."**

"Sye's logic is like a cow shitting in a hurricane: Produces something potentially useful while simultaneously wasting it."


Hmm. Okay, that second one is lame. But the first ain't bad.


Anybody else wanna play?



(*if you haven't read it yet, what are you waiting for? It's here.)
(**nope, not a typo, I'm a poet, I live to create neologisms and comma splices, so sue me)

The RS: Dumbass Theists!

Here's a dumbass theist moment.

AllFiredUp said...
PhatPhil said..."There's a name for someone who sells something that doesn't exist..."

Ahhh but that's the crux of the matter isn't it. There is no way you cannot prove that God does NOT exist.I have evidence that He does exist by creation. No matter how much you detest that evidence, God indeed exists and there's really nothing you can do about it.You choose to make an obsession out of debunking Christianity (funny I don't hear you guys going out of your way to debunk Hinduism).I have yet to see an atheist site devoted to debunking other religions as much as they do Christianity.Every wonder about that?There is a reason.


Did you read that, there is no proof that God does NOT exist. Hmmm. There is also no proof that unicorns don’t exist, that the FSM doesn’t exist, that Zeus doesn’t exist. This is the oldest excuse in the book. It’s easily dismissed if you ask me. So, creation points to God huh? So, any person that has never even heard about God can look at a tree and say, “Jesus died for me!”? That’ll be ludicrous.

Christianity is everywhere. It’s leaking in our government, in our education system, and is practiced by the majority of Americans. We are responding to what we see, and so far Muslims and Hindus have not been trying to teach us their version of creationism in schools as much as Christians. That’s the reason. And, there are atheists out there who debunk religions they were brought up in. Kafir Girl blogs about the Qur’an. Eat that! We can debunk any religion we want, kind of how many Christians tend to try to argue solely against Atheists. Ever think about that?

There is a reason

Allfiredup, you should change your name to AllTiredUp.

Ray's definition of a real christian

When mudskipper asked:
Can someone tell me how I can experience God experientially?
I want to have an experience like Ray had"

stranger.strange.land gave a standard reply invoking guilt and fear. And then added:
"But this is a crucial point. You will then either harden your conscience to what you have experienced, or you will be broken and see Jesus (through the preaching of the gospel) as your only hope."

stranger is correct. The kind of emotional breakdown that follows the understanding of the christian concept of sin and guilt, and the release from that because of jesus' sacrifice brings about an overwhelming emotional response. I know because I have experienced it, and I suspect, so have some of the Raytractors.

Interestingly, at the baptist church I used to attend we were warned against relying on feelings and emotions. We were taught to put faith first, and feelings would follow. if we chased the feelings we would eventually be disappointed and, like relationships that founder after the first bloom of romance is gone we could spend out time forever searching to recapture that emotional "rush".

After years of being deeply entrenched in fundamental Baptist doctrine, a slow drift away from the church and its influence allowed me to re-assess. I saw that I was basically no different from your average joe in the street, and yet I was supposed to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The internet, atheist blogs, and particularly Ex-Christian.net allowed me to break free from a guilt-ridden, supersticion-based way of living.

But here a core doctrine of Ray Comfort and his Rayniacs. I was what they would call a "false convert" How can they ever know if they will turn out to be false converts too? the parable of the sower gives examples of plants that grew up healthy before they were choked with weeds. On top of the guilt must be this constant fear of loss of faith, of backsliding.

On the one hand they accuse us of being blind because we can never know jesus personally like they do, of not having faith. And yet they must also be aware that because of the failings of our minds and senses, "knowledge" based on the emotional, based on things we have "felt" must be the most fragile, and ephemeral of all.

Gott Mit Uns

Nosilia666-I mean nosilia999 went off on a rant implying atheists have killed more than any religious believer. It was really long so I won't repeat it here, but it's under Ray's "A Letter From an Atheist". One of the biggest (killed the most people) horrors (s)he listed as atheistic was Nazi Germany. I think a great number of his/her claims could be refuted but this one stood out at me because even with my layman's knowledge of history, I knew it was bullshit. One of Hitler's slogans on Nazi paraphernalia was "gott mit uns" or "god with us", atheist indeed. I found a good article regarding Hitler's beliefs. According to the article, Hitler was a Roman Catholic, became an alter boy, and was even named a "solider of Christ" at his church. Interestingly enough, the church's doctrine included hate propaganda against the Jewish people. This could have been an inspiration for Hitler when he wrote in Mein Kampf "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of out Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work. " He never left the church and the church never condemned him.

My point in all this is to refute nosilia999 by showing there are both good and bad people in every faith or lack thereof and it's sickening to watch someone try and twist history in an attempt to breed contempt for their fellow man of different (non)beliefs.

Atheist Morals

allfiredup said...

" 'I mean that I hope my ethics have the practical results of causing less harm to life and liberty, and dealing justice as humanely as possible, than any ethical teachings of any church.'

Atheist ethics are a laugh.

They actually steal morals and ethics that were founded by Christians and call them their own.

It is well known that atheistic - free-thinking ethics has caused more mass murders than religions ever did."

The morals and ethics of atheists come from the same place as Christians and it's not from the bible. First of all many of the bible's ethics that one could find moral ideas in did not originate from the bible. For example the ten commandments is very much like its predecessor the code of Hammurabi. Secondly, if one were to strictly follow all the morals of the bible they would be mass murderers indeed. Some of the not so nice biblical morals and ethics include the repression of woman (1 Timothy 2:11-14 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35), child abuse and murder ( Proverbs 23:13-14, II Kings 2:23-24, and Psalm 137:8-9), mass slaughtering of the innocent (Ezekiel 9:5-6, Hosea 13:16), and slavery (Exodus 21:20-21, Luke 12:47). My best guess is our morals come from the "moral zeitgeist" as Richard Dawkins calls it, the consensus society comes to with regard to what our morals are. Wherever our ethics come from, they are not solely or originally from the bible and neither are our morals. The last statement about atheist ethics causing more mass murders than religion is a flat out lie that allfiredup has no proof of. Sickening hate speech is all he spews.