1- I don’t have a religious justification to hate gay people, so I don’t hate gay people.
2-I don’t have a religious justification to believe that women are inherently inferior to men, so I don’t believe women are inferior to men.
3-I don’t have a religious justification to not see a doctor when I’m sick, so I see a doctor when I’m sick.
4-I don’t have a religious justification to hate someone for having the “wrong” religion, so I don’t hate people because they follow a certain religion.
5-I don’t have a religious justification to deprive my children of truthful, frank sex education and the knowledge of safe and effective birth control use; so when I have a teenage daughter, she will be less likely to have sex too young, get pregnant, or get an STD.
6-I don’t have a religious justification to hate someone for being a member of the “wrong” race, so I am not a racist.
7-I don’t have a religious justification to support certain wars due to a belief that it will fulfill some sort of ancient prophecy, so I oppose needless death and destruction.
8-I don’t have a religious justification to strap a bomb to my chest and blow myself up in a crowded market, so I don’t strap a bomb to my chest and blow myself up in a crowded market.
9-I don’t have a religious justification to not care about climate change because “God would never let it get that bad before the end comes.”
10-I don’t believe that I have an eternal, joy-filled life waiting for me after I die, so I appreciate the value and sanctity of this one.
I know that post is not going to resonate with everybody, but I thought was a great thought experiment that I found here.
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Brilliant post.
ReplyDeleteFrog, I'm curious what you think of sex outside of marriage.
ReplyDeleteObsidian said...
ReplyDeleteFrog, I'm curious what you think of sex outside of marriage.
------------
You won't like my answer, I am sure of that.
Me, personally, I have always been a one-girl-guy. I have always reasoned that one should dance with the one he brought to the party.
There are very compelling reasons for establishing long term relationships. Even then, some of them must end due to conditions no apparent at the outset.
I could wrte about this at length, but of course, this is not the place for that.
Froggie you sound like a gent.
ReplyDeleteI find the concept of marriage frightening in the extreme. With the clang of a prison door your hopes and ambitions dissolve as you embark down the road of joyless compromise.
"Whose socks are these?"
When you hear that question in the context of a relationship... RUN!
There still might be time.
Code,
ReplyDeleteNo need to worry. Guys that do their own laundry are good candidates for LTRs.
C.C. says..
ReplyDelete"I find the concept of marriage frightening in the extreme."
What's so scary?
I'd find it hard to have to accomodate a bloke into my life full-time. I have my own way of running things in the house. Also, I'd start to focus more on the man and less on my education or career.
ReplyDeleteLots of the men I know cheat on their wives as well. It's made me very wary.
Obsidian said...
ReplyDeleteC.C. says..
"I find the concept of marriage frightening in the extreme."
What's so scary?
---------------
I might place a bet that she understands that most guys are not capable of watching her expand her horizons. They feel threatened by that.
C.C. says
ReplyDelete"Lots of the men I know cheat on their wives as well."
Ouch.. That sucks.That is one o the worst things I think someone could do.Society sucks
There you have it. Similar explanations simultaneously submitted.
ReplyDeleteQuestions?
Froggie - spot on. You are actually the first person who's understood that, without having to have me patiently explain it.
ReplyDeleteObsidian - I've never seen a happy marriage. Have you?
Code,
ReplyDeleteYou said, "I'd find it hard to have to accomodate a bloke into my life full-time."
Good. It is very important that you recognize that and it should not bother you to any degree.
My daughters didn't "marry" until they were into their 30s. They had other stuff to do, like you.
You persue your interests to the maximimum and if any of those guys want to trap you into some relationship..send them to see me and I will set them straight!
"Obsidian - I've never seen a happy marriage. Have you?"
ReplyDeleteI would say my parents.
Obsidian - lucky, lucky you :)
ReplyDeleteFroggie - Thanks... I may take you up on that one day. Have that can of whup-ass ready.
C.C - When marriages go well, no-one cares whose socks they are ;)
ReplyDeletecc - Fiona & I have been married for 23 years now. I was 21 & she was 19 when we got married. Our parents weren't keen.
ReplyDeleteIt's been 23 great years. There've been tough times, sure, but I love her more than ever. She's obviously not the same person she was 23 years ago, neither am I, but the wise, strong, funny sexy woman she has grown to be has become indispensible to me.
Unfortunately I think I'm still the same flaky kid I've always been. I try and make her laugh!
As for partners cheating - how the hell do they find the time?
Stew,
ReplyDelete"Unfortunately I think I'm still the same flaky kid I've always been. I try and make her laugh!"
When the subject of my age comes up Mrs Froggie will sometimes say, "Don't worry, he has a lot of little boy left in him!
I think the reason we have stayed together so long is the fact that neither one of us needs the other.
Aaaaand, in case you are wondering, we do not have sex as much as we once did, but when we do it is still very good.
So just shut up.
c.c.,
ReplyDeleteI read your response to whoever it was that thought kids aren't smacked enough. I think you handled it much better than I wanted to. I would have responded angrily. People like that do anger and sadden me so.
You sound like a great mom. Your childhood sounds a lot like mine. Religion didn't play a big part but alcohol did. Anyway, it took a long time for me to be capable of a relationship. I'm not saying that's true for you, I'm sure you're quite capable, but given what you wrote about your father your attitude towards men is reasonable. You might feel differently some day, we're not all jerks. At least not all the time.
I didn't get married until age 33. We celebrated 20 years last Sept. It hasn't always been easy but I have never regretted it. I've never cheated but I do have an active lust life. I'm sure my wife does too. I'm not advocating marriage for you but all things considered, I'm happy in my marriage.
I pick up my dirty laundry and hers and my daughters. I cook too. Damn, I'm quite a catch. I'm off to remind my wife.
Damn, I'm quite a catch. I'm off to remind my wife.
ReplyDeleteLOL!
My cross to bear is buying her tampons I do the weekly shopping because she can't stand it.
stew,
ReplyDeleteI think that's why they call it "the curse".
Or.
"Your works are as filthy rags."
Take your pick.
Code,
ReplyDeleteI just noticed your comment over at Ray's about spanking kids and I highly commend you.
When that little girl is your age you and her will look back and be very happy about your relationship.
Those fundy Xtians are all about control and I can say from my experience that once we transcend that urge to control others, a whole new life is there for us.
I have five kids that prove that.
Teaching kids based on biblical tenets is close minded and short sighted.
Our present knowledge of human dvelopment can insure that our kids will achieve the best level of ethics that they are humanly capable of.
(sorry for ending that sentence with a preposition)
"My cross to bear is buying her tampons I do the weekly shopping because she can't stand it."
ReplyDeleteNow wait a minute here!
There are some limitations to consider!
"I've never cheated but I do have an active lust life. I'm sure my wife does too."
ReplyDeleteYay! I have always considered innocent flirting as a redeeming reason for socializing.
I will admit though, at my age, I get to refer to all the girls as "honey" and tell them how pretty they are and they consider me harmless.
What I HATE, though, is when the young girls call me honey becaue I know they only do it because they see me as an old man. Oh well, such is life.
I have to cop to sumthin though.
I still flirt with Mrs Frog. She has the most beautiful eyes in the universe.
"What I HATE, though, is when the young girls call me honey becaue I know they only do it because they see me as an old man. Oh well, such is life."
ReplyDeleteYeah, but I'll take "honey" over "sir".
"She has the most beautiful eyes in the universe."
With all due respect, second most beautiful eyes. I won't hold it against you since you've never seen my wife.
If you wanna fight about it, I'll fight ya. Bring it. ***Froggie hopping*** :>
ReplyDeleteWoot - cool tangent to the OP. before I dive in head-first:
ReplyDeleteFroggie, I'd never heard of #9 before today. The rest of those seemed to be pretty common and thus refuted soundly.
As for marriage:
CodeWordConduit wrote Obsidian - I've never seen a happy marriage. Have you?
My parents. And honestly, grandparents on both sides. To date, my friends who've gotten married have stayed together (the longest being ~13 years, IIRC.
Don't get me wrong: I'm single, and am really quite comfortable with it. But I've actually learned a lot from the good examples of marriage in my life, as well as the bad examples (extended relatives, friends' parents, etc).
Marriage today (at least in the US) isn't supported by society like it should be. The reasons for people breaking up can be found readily in popular culture, but reasons for staying together - they're only found readily within the context of religion.
In short: IMHO you need to find a soul mate first, sexual/economic partner second. Someone who has qualities that you enjoy and envy, and who feels the same about you. Someone who'll let you be yourself, but tell you when you've gone off the deep end.
froggie,
ReplyDeleteMy brother can beat up your brother. So there.
wrd. ver. blest
Craig,
ReplyDeletemy brother has a friend that will....erm...ok...I stand defeated!
WEM,
ReplyDelete"Marriage today (at least in the US) isn't supported by society like it should be. The reasons for people breaking up can be found readily in popular culture, but reasons for staying together - they're only found readily within the context of religion.
In short: IMHO you need to find a soul mate first, sexual/economic partner second. Someone who has qualities that you enjoy and envy, and who feels the same about you."
I think you are on the right track, but don't actually realize the truth in what you are saying.
A Long Term Relationship (LTR) is always dependent on the VALUE SYSTEMS of the relationshipees.
It works every time. Value systems are tantamont to a LTR.
I wish I had the time to express my views on this but suffice to say, when and if we are attracted to another, and enjoy their company, the next question we must start looking at is how our value systems align.
This is no easy task and it takes a lot of time to actually internalize the value system of another person because it is not dependent on what they say in a simple conversation, it is dependant on what they do over a period of time.
Froggie wrote It works every time. Value systems are tantamont to a LTR.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Froggie, but only to an extent.
You *do* need to have some values in common with each other - and I'm obviously not merely talking about Coke vs Pepsi. This might be belief in God, how one secure themselves (and their family) for an economic future, valuing artistic creativity, racism, nationalism, etc.
"Values" is too limiting a term, in my humble opinion. You simply need to have a bunch of things in common. This could be a taste in music or sports or whatever.
I said above "to an extent", because I don't believe the commonalities have to outnumber the differences. Of course, if you disagree fundamentally about things you both consider to be important, then the relationship isn't going to do well.
My parents are actually very different from each other; my sister and I have always thought that it was their ability to focus on the commonalities (and be flexible about the differences) that has kept them together...
Sometimes, what couples end up having in common is the LTR itself. The years invested, the moments shared, the children....
ReplyDeleteObviously that is not enough in itself, viz all the people that get divorced after many years of marriage, kids or not.
The closest thing I have to a LTR is with my baby's dad. He's an arrogant, self absorbed tool and I could never live with him. But at the same time, in the four years I've known him, he's never bored me.
ReplyDeleteMaybe some people just aren't designed to live with other people. Neither of us has bothered with an LTR since we split 2 years ago; neither of us has felt the inclination so far - but we've both been free to do so.
There is, however, an unspoken understanding. Should either of us "settle" with someone else..? I think there would be a painful loss on both sides. Not that either of us would mention it, or acknowledge it even.
Would you class this as a relationship or what?
Sure would. That bit about you being separated but upset if one finds a new significant other sounds pretty normal to me
ReplyDeleteWell I'm buggered then :)
ReplyDeleteFroggie,
ReplyDelete"It works every time. Value systems are tantamont to a LTR...
This is no easy task and it takes a lot of time to actually internalize the value system of another person because it is not dependent on what they say in a simple conversation, it is dependent on what they do over a period of time."
Beautifully stated.
My partner is a City-raised, street-wise, multi-cultural Canadian with traditional S. Korean parents. I'm from a small town in England and saw my first non-white person at age 18. Pretty damned different backgrounds.
Our core values, however, are frighteningly similar... it just took us a long time to find that out because we express them in such different ways. The attraction was a requirement to keep us together long enough to figure this out.