Sunday, August 24, 2008
Site Statistics Part 4 (by request)
Again, please comment in the 1st or second part to keep the comments together
Site Statistics Part 2
It has now been about 1 month since I started tracking the data for Raytractors, so without further ado, here are the numbers for that time
Total Visits - 13,285
Absolute Unique Visitors - 3,329 (~196.29/day // outliers 111 & 389)
Pageviews - 36,446
Average pageviews - 2.74
Avg. time on site (per view) - 8 minutes 22 sec
User Stats:
And just because I have the data, over the last month we have received about 20 total visits from LivingWaters network. I'll have 1 more detailing where our readers are from.
Total Visits - 13,285
Absolute Unique Visitors - 3,329 (~196.29/day // outliers 111 & 389)
Pageviews - 36,446
Average pageviews - 2.74
Avg. time on site (per view) - 8 minutes 22 sec
User Stats:
And just because I have the data, over the last month we have received about 20 total visits from LivingWaters network. I'll have 1 more detailing where our readers are from.
Saturday, August 23, 2008
Response to Silent Dave
I found your rhyme a bit put-offish
Toward Wee my valued friend
I hope with no intention to offend
Because if you did I will come over there
And kick your scrawny assish*
*Invoking poetic license in the form of a logodaedaly
Toward Wee my valued friend
I hope with no intention to offend
Because if you did I will come over there
And kick your scrawny assish*
*Invoking poetic license in the form of a logodaedaly
Site Statistics Part 1 -- A Little Fun
25 Favorite Google searches that link to us:(in no specific order)
1. Why won't god heal amputees? - Because, like your parents, he doesn't love you.
2. What's wrong with Ray Comfort? - I have asked myself that many times...
3. What do baby snakes eat? - Fangfurters
4. transitional fossils seem fuzzy to me - Have you cleaned the moss off of them?
5. thank the god amen-ray - I guess he's as likely real as any other.
6. snuff porn - So you saw the Passion of the Christ too...
7. Ray Comfort's logic - I'm surprised Google was even able to find any.
8. Ray Comfort pedophile - Why do you ask, is there a job opening?
9. Ray Comfort is a lair - Gee...I always pictured him more as a burrow or bunker, hiding from reason.
10. Ray Comfort brain - See #7.
11. pig dog fish - Snorkel ink hippopotamus; see, I can play the random word game too.
12. olives for ovaries - I think you need a different doctor or a better pawnbroker.
13. me are pariah - Me fail English? That's unpossible.
14. I really tried to believe you. - You never listen anymore.
15. I have to leave now. - I don't know how to quit you.
16. holy sword paladin rpg - "I'm attacking the darkness..."
17. fear of breasts - How common is this? How about clowns with breasts, or even big breasted spider clowns?
18. ancient secrets of mind - There are very few modern ones, what makes you think there are any ancient ones?
19. argue whip experience you with fool don't - Excuse me, my dictionary just threw up.
20. ,.,.`,`.z,x.l.`m,.,. - Cat-like typing detected.
21. "Ray Comfort" pornography - Excuse me, your kink is showing. A good example of Rule 34 in action I suppose.
22. "Ray Comfort" asshole - Wow, you're pretty specific in your porn choices, not that there's anything wrong with that of course.
23. "Bob Larson" -tennis, -contra -costa - Bob's not here right now, but if you'd like to leave a message...
24. "bible's buried secrets" - That it's a collection of fairy tales and morality stories for nomads?
25. Is Ray Comfort for real? - Either that or he's the biggest internet troll EVER.
I have made no edits aside from capitalizing names and adding punctuation if it was a full sentence. Otherwise, all of these Google queries have brought at least person here.
????
Did anyone pay attention to Ray's posts earlier today? I could have sworn there were three new ones from the 23rd earlier, but now there are only two. Is it me, or did he delete one? If he did delete one, what was it?
The 11th commandment, Thou shall bare arms!
In my wandering around the internet at lunch this week I stumbled on an interesting essay by S. Michael Fort titled, Why I Am Pro-Gun.
Michael starts off by revealing that he a Christian, and holds to a biblical world view. I think you can see where this is going. The entire essay explains how God and the bible tell us we all should have guns.
This excursion into the twisted logic of a biblical literalist is a great example of how dangerous it can be to foster this kind of thinking. Any idea can be supported by applying this flawed reasoning and the bible to it. It seems that they are not taught how to look at the evidence and see where it leads, but instead to make an assumption and look for evidence to support it. If the evidence doesn't fit, you twist and turn it until it does, or completely reject because it doesn't. In the end though, any evidence you find in the bible automatically is correct, no matter what any other evidence suggests. Here is a great example of Michael applying these skills.
After reading this mans post, it frightens me to think that he owns a gun(s).
~Atomic Chimp
Michael starts off by revealing that he a Christian, and holds to a biblical world view. I think you can see where this is going. The entire essay explains how God and the bible tell us we all should have guns.
This excursion into the twisted logic of a biblical literalist is a great example of how dangerous it can be to foster this kind of thinking. Any idea can be supported by applying this flawed reasoning and the bible to it. It seems that they are not taught how to look at the evidence and see where it leads, but instead to make an assumption and look for evidence to support it. If the evidence doesn't fit, you twist and turn it until it does, or completely reject because it doesn't. In the end though, any evidence you find in the bible automatically is correct, no matter what any other evidence suggests. Here is a great example of Michael applying these skills.
"The question for the Christian then cannot be answered by quoting the FBI’s Uniform Crime Statistics. The empirical facts are utterly irrelevant in the determination of right and wrong regardless of which side they appear to prove."The entire essay is filled with so many interesting and scary ideas it boggles the mind. I could comment on so many things Michael says but I just don't know where to start, so I suggest taking a moment to experience it yourself. I'll just leave you with a few more quotes to chew on.
"Religious systems cannot peacefully coexist for any great duration of time. One will be ultimately victorious and the others utterly defeated. We are in a war for the minds of men"
"If the family member was killed accidentally, the person who killed them is to flee to a city of refuge in which the avenger of blood may not put him to death. However, the avenger of blood will not be guilty of bloodshed if he kills the person before he goes to the city of refuge. This is exactly how far God extends defense of self and family!"
"... the criminal is to be stoned to death. This would include such crimes as murder, kidnapping, adultery, and male homosexuality. Also, it includes unrepentant or incorrigible criminals (for example, if you were convicted of stealing several times you’d be put to death by stoning)."
After reading this mans post, it frightens me to think that he owns a gun(s).
~Atomic Chimp
Response to WeeMaryAnne
I find argumentum ad lim'rick
To be little more than a gimmick.
Only substance will trump.
Leave your rhymes in the dump,
Or I fear that Ray Comfort you'll mimic.
To be little more than a gimmick.
Only substance will trump.
Leave your rhymes in the dump,
Or I fear that Ray Comfort you'll mimic.
Friday, August 22, 2008
Ray and Dave: A Play in One Act
(SILENT DAVE and RAY COMFORT are lying unconscious on a white cloud, stretching out to infinity. Slowly, groggily, they come to and look at each other in some surprise. A pause.)
DAVE: Well . . . this is embarrassing.
RAY (jumping to his feet): I KNEW it! Hah! I TOLD you, and you wouldn't listen! Ohh, you're gonna get it! The Lord came for me, came for both of us!
DAVE (standing): Uh, well . . . hey, aren't you Ray Comfort?
RAY: I am, and you're one of those annoying atheist bloggers, aren't you? Well, I hate to say I told you so, but . . .
DAVE: Go ahead. You know you want to.
RAY: I told you so!
(Ray rubs his hand together and cackles with glee, looking around.)
RAY: Lord? I'm here, Lord! Your servant has arrived! And so has a very surprised, and soon to be very terrified atheist! (to Dave) So what do you have to say now? Huh?
DAVE: Well . . . I do have to admit, the fact that we're even here is one point for you. That is, I mean . . . we are dead, right?
RAY: I'm here, Lord! I'm waiting for you!
DAVE: I remember walking through downtown, looking up at a skyscraper and seeing a refrigerator . . .
RAY: Lord Jesus? I've arrived!
DAVE: . . . and a mountain lion . . .
RAY: Lord! I'm here, Lord!
DAVE: . . . in Minneapolis? (looking at Ray) Look, if God is here, I'm pretty sure he can hear you without you shouting.
RAY: Hee hee! We'll see who's laughing in a minute! LORD! I've come, Lord!
(An awkward pause.)
RAY: Lord? . . . Uh, where are you, Lord?
DAVE: Not really what you were expecting either?
RAY: Shut up, you stupid atheist. Enjoy not being on fire while you still can. Lord! Where are you!?
(Another pause.)
DAVE: Okay, God, I'm with Ray on this one: Where are you?
RAY: He's coming, don't worry. Or rather, start worrying! (nervous chuckle)
DAVE: Well yes, I'm worried. I didn't expect this for a moment.
RAY: Oh, please. You knew perfectly well that this was coming.
DAVE: No I didn't.
RAY: You knew perfectly well that God exists and that you were in danger of Hell. You chose to live in your sin instead.
DAVE (sighing): NOW, of all times, you're going to keep that routine going?
RAY: Heh, well, we'll see in a moment who's right. LORD! WE'RE HERE, LORD!
(Long pause.)
DAVE: A moment, two moments, whatever.
RAY: Shut up!
DAVE: Sorry. I make jokes when I'm nervous.
RAY: Yeah, well, you should be nervous. You're gonna get it!
(Long pause.)
DAVE: When?
RAY: You act like you're so sure even now. How pathetic. Let me ask you this: Do you still profess atheism?
DAVE: Well, I have to admit, it's not looking as good as it was a few moments ago, but--
RAY: Hah! Not so smart now, are you?
DAVE: Okay, you know what? I'll just shut up and wait and see what happens.
RAY: You do that.
(Dave sits down. A very awkward two minutes pass in silence as Ray paces around, looking anxious, and Dave sits there, in trepidation.)
RAY (suddenly): Not even a little?
DAVE (startled): What? I'm sorry, what?
RAY: You're not even a little bit sorry for being an atheist?
DAVE: Well . . . no, I'm not. I mean, clearly, I was wrong -- at least I think I was, or at least I was about one part of it all, cause we're dead and we're here -- but according to Christianity, it all depends on what you do during your life. So it's too late to change anything now, right?
RAY: That's right. It's too late for you! (cackle)
DAVE: Seriously, you need to stop cackling.
RAY: Er, sorry . . . but I mean, knowing what you know now, would you still claim to be an atheist in your life?
DAVE: Knowing what I know now? Probably not -- this is more in line with your worldview than a naturalistic one.
RAY: So you admit I was right?
DAVE: Like I said, it's looking more that way than it was a moment ago--
RAY: Argh! Why can't you just admit it?
DAVE: Admit what?
RAY: That I was right! That God exists!
(Pause.)
DAVE: Does my admitting it mean that much to you?
RAY: I, uh, no, of course not! God has vindicated us.
DAVE: Speaking of God, where IS he?
RAY: HE'LL BE HERE!!
DAVE: . . . okay, calm down . . . as I was saying, it's looking more like you're right than it was a moment ago, but God hasn't shown up. So far, this is just a, uh, white place. Just the two of us. No God, no angels--
RAY: God goes by his own timetable, not yours.
DAVE: Fair enough. But since the guy knows you so well, any chance he's shared that timetable with you?
(Ray glowers.)
DAVE: Sorry. The nervous humor thing again.
RAY: Look, just admit that I was right.
DAVE: So it does mean that much to you.
RAY: Yes! I mean, no! I mean . . .
DAVE: God hasn't shown up. And according to you, it's too late to do anything that would make a difference, including say that yes, God does exist.
RAY: You're not serious! After all this, you still claim to think that God does not exist?
DAVE: Well, I guess I can't still say that I'm a strong atheist -- I no longer hold the belief that God is nonexistent. But I'm not yet prepared to say that he does exist, so technically--
RAY: YOU'RE STILL AN ATHEIST? I mean, here you are, in Heaven, and you're still an atheist? What is WRONG with you?
VOICE (O.S.): Actually, he's completely correct.
(Ray and Dave both look toward the voice, surprised. Suddenly, a WOMAN walks onto stage, wearing a white robe, smiling benevolently. Ray kneels before her.)
RAY: Jesus is Lord! I am your servant.
WOMAN: I'm not Jesus.
RAY: Er . . . I know that. But . . .
WOMAN: But?
RAY: You're . . . I mean, you're an angel, right?
(The woman pats Ray on the head condescendingly, and walks over to Dave, who looks uncertain.)
DAVE: Um . . . pleasure to meet you.
WOMAN: And you, Dave. We've been hoping you would pass the test.
RAY: What!? What do you mean, he passed the test? He's an atheist!
WOMAN: Yes. And he's completely correct. God does not exist.
(Ray's jaw falls to the cloud.)
RAY: You . . . what . . . how . . .
DAVE: Whoever you are, ma'am, I think you finally made his brain explode. But I don't think there's any such thing as an atheist angel, is there? So who ARE you?
WOMAN: I am an Explorer. I am one of a vast race of beings, what you would call extra-terrestrial beings.
DAVE: And you run the afterlife?
WOMAN: In a sense. We reconstituted your body from our temporal records at the moment of your death -- which, by the way, was several billion of your years ago, even though you think it was just now.
DAVE: So I'm not really me, I'm just a copy of me? I mean, I know that wasn't too clear--
WOMAN (smiling): It's all right. No, we managed to capture what you think of as a soul, which is really just the material quantum pattern-- here, it'll be easier if I show you.
(She waves her hand in front of Dave. A flat screen appears in front of him, over which tiny letters, numbers, symbols and diagrams flash across it at an amazingly fast rate. Dave watches it for several seconds until it stops and the screen disappears.)
DAVE: Wow. I see. Hey, that's a neat trick! So I really am me, and you -- Explorers, you said? You brought me back from the dead?
WOMAN: We see it as our ethical duty to do so with all sentient beings.
RAY: Um, may I say something here? Even if you're speaking the truth, young lady, it doesn't mean God does not exist, because he does!
WOMAN: No he doesn't. We proved that a long time ago.
RAY: No, that is impossible. You can't prove what is not--
(The woman waves her hand again, and the screen appears in front of Ray, showing him things, then disappears a few seconds later. Ray blinks.)
RAY: . . . wow . . .
DAVE: So, what happens now?
WOMAN: Having done our ethical duty, we have the power to give you whatever existence you desire, to have whatever experiences you wish for as long as you wish. Or . . .
DAVE: Or?
WOMAN: Or you may join us. We Explorers are just what the name suggests: we explore reality itself -- time, space, and all that lays beyond. We believe in acquiring knowledge for its own sake. If you are open minded, and thirst for knowledge as we do, then we would love to have you on our journey.
DAVE: Wow! That sounds incredible!
RAY: Not a chance. I don't care what you people think you've "proved" there, I still believe that the Lord will come for me.
WOMAN: That's all right, Ray -- you're not invited.
RAY: I'm not?
WOMAN: These last few minutes was your final test. Your last chance to open your mind to the possibilities. We knew we wanted Dave, but you didn't appear to be -- how can I put this politely? -- an ideal candidate for our purposes. But even with our temporal records, we've been wrong in the past. So we gave you one final opportunity. And you failed.
RAY: I failed? I mean . . . I don't care what you think! You're obviously a sinful being of some sort, and God will no more choose you than he will choose him! (points at Dave)
WOMAN: Well, we don't feel it ethical to change what a person believes; we can only show you what is and let you make up your own mind. After that, it's up to you. Now, as I said, we can give you whatever existence you desire, for as long as you--
RAY: I'm staying right here! My Lord Jesus will come for me, and I'll be here when he comes! I'll wait forever if that's what it takes!
WOMAN: As you wish. Are you ready, Dave?
DAVE: Yes, I am. (to Ray) I guess this is goodbye, Ray. Are you sure you want to--
RAY: Get away from me! Go to Hell where you belong!
WOMAN: Trust me, Dave, I've been doing this for hundreds of thousands of years -- some people truly are hopeless.
DAVE (sighing): I never really wanted to believe that, but . . . I guess I have to. Goodbye, then, Ray.
WOMAN: When you wish for a ceasation of existence, simply walk in that direction (points) until you find the Void -- there you will find peace. Goodbye.
(Dave and the Woman walk off stage together.)
RAY: Fine! I'll wait here . . . by myself! I don't need . . . you . . . I'm fine. I said I'm FINE! I have my faith! No, not faith -- I KNOW! I don't care what you show on that little screen, I don't care what you . . . I don't care! Jesus will come!
(long pause)
RAY: Jesus? I'm here, Lord! Where are you?
(long pause)
RAY: LORD! . . . how long must I wait? . . .
(long pause. Ray, looking despondent, sits down on a piece of white.)
RAY: He'll come . . . I know he will . . . Lord? . . .
(Long pause. Ray buries his head in his hands. Slow fade-out.)
DAVE: Well . . . this is embarrassing.
RAY (jumping to his feet): I KNEW it! Hah! I TOLD you, and you wouldn't listen! Ohh, you're gonna get it! The Lord came for me, came for both of us!
DAVE (standing): Uh, well . . . hey, aren't you Ray Comfort?
RAY: I am, and you're one of those annoying atheist bloggers, aren't you? Well, I hate to say I told you so, but . . .
DAVE: Go ahead. You know you want to.
RAY: I told you so!
(Ray rubs his hand together and cackles with glee, looking around.)
RAY: Lord? I'm here, Lord! Your servant has arrived! And so has a very surprised, and soon to be very terrified atheist! (to Dave) So what do you have to say now? Huh?
DAVE: Well . . . I do have to admit, the fact that we're even here is one point for you. That is, I mean . . . we are dead, right?
RAY: I'm here, Lord! I'm waiting for you!
DAVE: I remember walking through downtown, looking up at a skyscraper and seeing a refrigerator . . .
RAY: Lord Jesus? I've arrived!
DAVE: . . . and a mountain lion . . .
RAY: Lord! I'm here, Lord!
DAVE: . . . in Minneapolis? (looking at Ray) Look, if God is here, I'm pretty sure he can hear you without you shouting.
RAY: Hee hee! We'll see who's laughing in a minute! LORD! I've come, Lord!
(An awkward pause.)
RAY: Lord? . . . Uh, where are you, Lord?
DAVE: Not really what you were expecting either?
RAY: Shut up, you stupid atheist. Enjoy not being on fire while you still can. Lord! Where are you!?
(Another pause.)
DAVE: Okay, God, I'm with Ray on this one: Where are you?
RAY: He's coming, don't worry. Or rather, start worrying! (nervous chuckle)
DAVE: Well yes, I'm worried. I didn't expect this for a moment.
RAY: Oh, please. You knew perfectly well that this was coming.
DAVE: No I didn't.
RAY: You knew perfectly well that God exists and that you were in danger of Hell. You chose to live in your sin instead.
DAVE (sighing): NOW, of all times, you're going to keep that routine going?
RAY: Heh, well, we'll see in a moment who's right. LORD! WE'RE HERE, LORD!
(Long pause.)
DAVE: A moment, two moments, whatever.
RAY: Shut up!
DAVE: Sorry. I make jokes when I'm nervous.
RAY: Yeah, well, you should be nervous. You're gonna get it!
(Long pause.)
DAVE: When?
RAY: You act like you're so sure even now. How pathetic. Let me ask you this: Do you still profess atheism?
DAVE: Well, I have to admit, it's not looking as good as it was a few moments ago, but--
RAY: Hah! Not so smart now, are you?
DAVE: Okay, you know what? I'll just shut up and wait and see what happens.
RAY: You do that.
(Dave sits down. A very awkward two minutes pass in silence as Ray paces around, looking anxious, and Dave sits there, in trepidation.)
RAY (suddenly): Not even a little?
DAVE (startled): What? I'm sorry, what?
RAY: You're not even a little bit sorry for being an atheist?
DAVE: Well . . . no, I'm not. I mean, clearly, I was wrong -- at least I think I was, or at least I was about one part of it all, cause we're dead and we're here -- but according to Christianity, it all depends on what you do during your life. So it's too late to change anything now, right?
RAY: That's right. It's too late for you! (cackle)
DAVE: Seriously, you need to stop cackling.
RAY: Er, sorry . . . but I mean, knowing what you know now, would you still claim to be an atheist in your life?
DAVE: Knowing what I know now? Probably not -- this is more in line with your worldview than a naturalistic one.
RAY: So you admit I was right?
DAVE: Like I said, it's looking more that way than it was a moment ago--
RAY: Argh! Why can't you just admit it?
DAVE: Admit what?
RAY: That I was right! That God exists!
(Pause.)
DAVE: Does my admitting it mean that much to you?
RAY: I, uh, no, of course not! God has vindicated us.
DAVE: Speaking of God, where IS he?
RAY: HE'LL BE HERE!!
DAVE: . . . okay, calm down . . . as I was saying, it's looking more like you're right than it was a moment ago, but God hasn't shown up. So far, this is just a, uh, white place. Just the two of us. No God, no angels--
RAY: God goes by his own timetable, not yours.
DAVE: Fair enough. But since the guy knows you so well, any chance he's shared that timetable with you?
(Ray glowers.)
DAVE: Sorry. The nervous humor thing again.
RAY: Look, just admit that I was right.
DAVE: So it does mean that much to you.
RAY: Yes! I mean, no! I mean . . .
DAVE: God hasn't shown up. And according to you, it's too late to do anything that would make a difference, including say that yes, God does exist.
RAY: You're not serious! After all this, you still claim to think that God does not exist?
DAVE: Well, I guess I can't still say that I'm a strong atheist -- I no longer hold the belief that God is nonexistent. But I'm not yet prepared to say that he does exist, so technically--
RAY: YOU'RE STILL AN ATHEIST? I mean, here you are, in Heaven, and you're still an atheist? What is WRONG with you?
VOICE (O.S.): Actually, he's completely correct.
(Ray and Dave both look toward the voice, surprised. Suddenly, a WOMAN walks onto stage, wearing a white robe, smiling benevolently. Ray kneels before her.)
RAY: Jesus is Lord! I am your servant.
WOMAN: I'm not Jesus.
RAY: Er . . . I know that. But . . .
WOMAN: But?
RAY: You're . . . I mean, you're an angel, right?
(The woman pats Ray on the head condescendingly, and walks over to Dave, who looks uncertain.)
DAVE: Um . . . pleasure to meet you.
WOMAN: And you, Dave. We've been hoping you would pass the test.
RAY: What!? What do you mean, he passed the test? He's an atheist!
WOMAN: Yes. And he's completely correct. God does not exist.
(Ray's jaw falls to the cloud.)
RAY: You . . . what . . . how . . .
DAVE: Whoever you are, ma'am, I think you finally made his brain explode. But I don't think there's any such thing as an atheist angel, is there? So who ARE you?
WOMAN: I am an Explorer. I am one of a vast race of beings, what you would call extra-terrestrial beings.
DAVE: And you run the afterlife?
WOMAN: In a sense. We reconstituted your body from our temporal records at the moment of your death -- which, by the way, was several billion of your years ago, even though you think it was just now.
DAVE: So I'm not really me, I'm just a copy of me? I mean, I know that wasn't too clear--
WOMAN (smiling): It's all right. No, we managed to capture what you think of as a soul, which is really just the material quantum pattern-- here, it'll be easier if I show you.
(She waves her hand in front of Dave. A flat screen appears in front of him, over which tiny letters, numbers, symbols and diagrams flash across it at an amazingly fast rate. Dave watches it for several seconds until it stops and the screen disappears.)
DAVE: Wow. I see. Hey, that's a neat trick! So I really am me, and you -- Explorers, you said? You brought me back from the dead?
WOMAN: We see it as our ethical duty to do so with all sentient beings.
RAY: Um, may I say something here? Even if you're speaking the truth, young lady, it doesn't mean God does not exist, because he does!
WOMAN: No he doesn't. We proved that a long time ago.
RAY: No, that is impossible. You can't prove what is not--
(The woman waves her hand again, and the screen appears in front of Ray, showing him things, then disappears a few seconds later. Ray blinks.)
RAY: . . . wow . . .
DAVE: So, what happens now?
WOMAN: Having done our ethical duty, we have the power to give you whatever existence you desire, to have whatever experiences you wish for as long as you wish. Or . . .
DAVE: Or?
WOMAN: Or you may join us. We Explorers are just what the name suggests: we explore reality itself -- time, space, and all that lays beyond. We believe in acquiring knowledge for its own sake. If you are open minded, and thirst for knowledge as we do, then we would love to have you on our journey.
DAVE: Wow! That sounds incredible!
RAY: Not a chance. I don't care what you people think you've "proved" there, I still believe that the Lord will come for me.
WOMAN: That's all right, Ray -- you're not invited.
RAY: I'm not?
WOMAN: These last few minutes was your final test. Your last chance to open your mind to the possibilities. We knew we wanted Dave, but you didn't appear to be -- how can I put this politely? -- an ideal candidate for our purposes. But even with our temporal records, we've been wrong in the past. So we gave you one final opportunity. And you failed.
RAY: I failed? I mean . . . I don't care what you think! You're obviously a sinful being of some sort, and God will no more choose you than he will choose him! (points at Dave)
WOMAN: Well, we don't feel it ethical to change what a person believes; we can only show you what is and let you make up your own mind. After that, it's up to you. Now, as I said, we can give you whatever existence you desire, for as long as you--
RAY: I'm staying right here! My Lord Jesus will come for me, and I'll be here when he comes! I'll wait forever if that's what it takes!
WOMAN: As you wish. Are you ready, Dave?
DAVE: Yes, I am. (to Ray) I guess this is goodbye, Ray. Are you sure you want to--
RAY: Get away from me! Go to Hell where you belong!
WOMAN: Trust me, Dave, I've been doing this for hundreds of thousands of years -- some people truly are hopeless.
DAVE (sighing): I never really wanted to believe that, but . . . I guess I have to. Goodbye, then, Ray.
WOMAN: When you wish for a ceasation of existence, simply walk in that direction (points) until you find the Void -- there you will find peace. Goodbye.
(Dave and the Woman walk off stage together.)
RAY: Fine! I'll wait here . . . by myself! I don't need . . . you . . . I'm fine. I said I'm FINE! I have my faith! No, not faith -- I KNOW! I don't care what you show on that little screen, I don't care what you . . . I don't care! Jesus will come!
(long pause)
RAY: Jesus? I'm here, Lord! Where are you?
(long pause)
RAY: LORD! . . . how long must I wait? . . .
(long pause. Ray, looking despondent, sits down on a piece of white.)
RAY: He'll come . . . I know he will . . . Lord? . . .
(Long pause. Ray buries his head in his hands. Slow fade-out.)
Danger, Silentdave! Danger, Silentdave!
If the Bible is really inerrant
As we're told, then your Questions may warrant
Retribution divine --
The infinite kind --
A prospect that's truly abhorrent.
Genesis stands literally!
In Ray's 'Hating God' post, TEMPLE asked, 'Is evolution the true God-killer?' I thought that FourKid's answer was the most telling.
~Atomic Chimp
If Genesis is incorrect, then so could any other part of the Bible - who would decide? how would we know?Patti, much like many others at Ray's blog, seem to apply black-and-white thinking to everything. Its honest comments like these that remind me of why science can be so difficult for them to grasp. Its obvious that they fear it will entirely undermine their belief system, but thats partly due to this polarized world view coupled with an intellectual tunnel vision they seem to have.
*The virgin birth? It is critical that Jesus was born without the sin of man.
*The Resurrection? If Jesus didn't come back from the dead then we have no hope of conquering death.
Genesis stands literally and without error.
Blessings,
Patti
When I find it hard to understand why they cannot wrap their minds around simple ideas supported by an enormous amount of evidence, I need to remind myself that its difficult to stretch a mind that seems to be suffering from a mental atrophy. This is a great example of the ill effect of living in an environment that discourages independent thinking and inquiry.
~Atomic Chimp
No Rain Before Noah? (Funny Things Fundies Believe Part 1,495,638)
Probing the creationist mindset is a fascinating anthropological exercise. Here's one that's new to me...it didn't rain before Noah.
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/was-there-rain-on-the-earth-before-the-flood.html
http://www.creationapologetics.org/bibqanda/wasthererain.html
There are a few posts on this topic in this thread:
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=56557
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/was-there-rain-on-the-earth-before-the-flood.html
http://www.creationapologetics.org/bibqanda/wasthererain.html
There are a few posts on this topic in this thread:
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=56557
Questions for Christians: Inerrancy
First, the usual disclaimer: the purpose of these posts is to pose questions to Christians who come here (or go anywhere, for that matter) with the intent of converting us to Christianity, but also with an open mind about their own faith. You may post your answers here, or answer them privately, at your discretion. My ultimate goal in asking these questions is to have you deconvert from Christianity. If you are not open to at least the possibility of that happening, then I suggest you not respond to these questions, as that will be a waste of your time (and possibly our bandwidth). At the same time, I am open to the possibility of learning a thing or two about Christianity along the way -- but if you answer these questions publicly, with the intention of being a teacher instead of a learner, then please don't bother doing so here. These questions are for your educational benefit.
This is one in a series of "Questions..." posts that deal with the Bible, the scriptural compilation that constitutes the conceptual framework of the Christian faith. If you were ever a Christian, chances are you've read some of the Bible. If you are still a Christian today, chances are you haven't read all of it.
This post deals with the doctrine of inerrancy, the idea that the Bible, at least in its original form, is completely and 100% free of error and contradiction of any kind. If you don't hold to the doctrine of Inerrancy, then these questions won't apply to you -- but you can still answer them. Anyone can, in fact. Because this "Questions..." post consists entirely of math questions.
Yes, I said math questions.
Now, what does math have to do with Inerrancy, you ask? To answer that question, let's look at a common example of an apparent contradiction in the Bible?: How many stalls for horses and chariots did Solomon have?? 1 Kings 4:26 gives the number as 4,000, while 2 Chronicles 9:25 gives the number as 40,000. That's an entire order of magnitude of discrepancy. Clearly couldn't have had both 40,000 and only 4,000 stalls. This seems to be a clear contradiction.
However, all apparent contradictions in the Bible have had an explanation offered by at least one Christian inerrantist, and this one is no exception -- in this case, the most common explanation is that the apparent contradiction is the result of a copyist's error.
I see no reason to prefer the "copyist's error" theory over the theory that one or both verses is simply in error -- copyists of the time, especially of sacred historical documents, were extremely painstaking. As far as I'm concerned, it's about 50/50 either way. But let's give the Christian the benefit of the doubt here. Let's say that there's a 99% chance that this was indeed a copyist's error, and only a 1% chance that one or both of the original documents committed a factual error.
Sounds more than fair, right? So let's apply it across the board. Let's say that every apparent contradiction or error in the Bible has, on average, a 99% chance of having an explanation that renders the original documents safely error-free. For some apparent errors the number would be higher, but for others it would be much lower. I think 99% is a good average, if we're giving inerrantists the benefit of the doubt. So what does that mean?
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible lists a total of 742 apparent contradictions and known scientific and historical errors in its "Highlights" section. I think that this is an extremely conservative count, and could easily be increased by including other problematic passages, such as passages which demonstrate questionable moral precepts -- but, again giving the Christian the benefit of the doubt, let's accept 742 as a working number. And recall, let's say that each of the 742 apparent errors has a 99% probability of not being an error.
1. What is the probability that all of the 742 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 99% probability of explicability?
Hint: 99% multiplied by itself 742 times, or 0.99^742.
Now remember, that particular figure is arrived at only by giving the Christian every conceivable quasi-realistic benefit of the doubt. Let's use a more realistic number of apparent factual and moral errors in the Bible, say 5,000, which is my own personal estimate (and I'm a nice guy in that regard; there are estimates ranging in the tens of thousands!).
2. What is the probability that all of the 5,000 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 99% probability of explicability?
Now let's run the numbers one more time, this time using a more realistic average probability of explicability as well -- say, 66%, which I think is still quite generous to the Christian.
3. What is the probability that all of the 5,000 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 66% probability of explicability?
Question 3 above is unique, in that it is not rhetorical. I'm actually asking, because I don't know the answer.
You see, when I plug the formula (0.66^5000) into Microsoft Excel, which I use for pretty much all my number crunching, the result comes back "0". I think this is Excel's way of saying "ERROR" -- the actual number is so low that Excel simply cannot handle it. It simply does what most humans would do in this situation: it throws up its proverbial hands and says, "I don't know. Let's just call it zero."
Which, for purposes of discussion, is good enough for me.
The probability of inerrancy, my Christian friends, is zero. What, then, can possibly excuse someone believing in it?
This is one in a series of "Questions..." posts that deal with the Bible, the scriptural compilation that constitutes the conceptual framework of the Christian faith. If you were ever a Christian, chances are you've read some of the Bible. If you are still a Christian today, chances are you haven't read all of it.
This post deals with the doctrine of inerrancy, the idea that the Bible, at least in its original form, is completely and 100% free of error and contradiction of any kind. If you don't hold to the doctrine of Inerrancy, then these questions won't apply to you -- but you can still answer them. Anyone can, in fact. Because this "Questions..." post consists entirely of math questions.
Yes, I said math questions.
Now, what does math have to do with Inerrancy, you ask? To answer that question, let's look at a common example of an apparent contradiction in the Bible?: How many stalls for horses and chariots did Solomon have?? 1 Kings 4:26 gives the number as 4,000, while 2 Chronicles 9:25 gives the number as 40,000. That's an entire order of magnitude of discrepancy. Clearly couldn't have had both 40,000 and only 4,000 stalls. This seems to be a clear contradiction.
However, all apparent contradictions in the Bible have had an explanation offered by at least one Christian inerrantist, and this one is no exception -- in this case, the most common explanation is that the apparent contradiction is the result of a copyist's error.
I see no reason to prefer the "copyist's error" theory over the theory that one or both verses is simply in error -- copyists of the time, especially of sacred historical documents, were extremely painstaking. As far as I'm concerned, it's about 50/50 either way. But let's give the Christian the benefit of the doubt here. Let's say that there's a 99% chance that this was indeed a copyist's error, and only a 1% chance that one or both of the original documents committed a factual error.
Sounds more than fair, right? So let's apply it across the board. Let's say that every apparent contradiction or error in the Bible has, on average, a 99% chance of having an explanation that renders the original documents safely error-free. For some apparent errors the number would be higher, but for others it would be much lower. I think 99% is a good average, if we're giving inerrantists the benefit of the doubt. So what does that mean?
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible lists a total of 742 apparent contradictions and known scientific and historical errors in its "Highlights" section. I think that this is an extremely conservative count, and could easily be increased by including other problematic passages, such as passages which demonstrate questionable moral precepts -- but, again giving the Christian the benefit of the doubt, let's accept 742 as a working number. And recall, let's say that each of the 742 apparent errors has a 99% probability of not being an error.
1. What is the probability that all of the 742 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 99% probability of explicability?
Hint: 99% multiplied by itself 742 times, or 0.99^742.
Now remember, that particular figure is arrived at only by giving the Christian every conceivable quasi-realistic benefit of the doubt. Let's use a more realistic number of apparent factual and moral errors in the Bible, say 5,000, which is my own personal estimate (and I'm a nice guy in that regard; there are estimates ranging in the tens of thousands!).
2. What is the probability that all of the 5,000 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 99% probability of explicability?
Now let's run the numbers one more time, this time using a more realistic average probability of explicability as well -- say, 66%, which I think is still quite generous to the Christian.
3. What is the probability that all of the 5,000 apparent errors are explicable, given an average 66% probability of explicability?
Question 3 above is unique, in that it is not rhetorical. I'm actually asking, because I don't know the answer.
You see, when I plug the formula (0.66^5000) into Microsoft Excel, which I use for pretty much all my number crunching, the result comes back "0". I think this is Excel's way of saying "ERROR" -- the actual number is so low that Excel simply cannot handle it. It simply does what most humans would do in this situation: it throws up its proverbial hands and says, "I don't know. Let's just call it zero."
Which, for purposes of discussion, is good enough for me.
The probability of inerrancy, my Christian friends, is zero. What, then, can possibly excuse someone believing in it?
A fool and his money
http://www.youvebeenleftbehind.com/index.html
Services Overview
We have set up a system to send documents by the email, to the addresses you provide, 6 days after the "Rapture" of the Church. This occurs when 3 of our 5 team members scattered around the U.S fail to log in over a 3 day period. Another 3 days are given to fail safe any false triggering of the system.
We give you 150mb of encrypted storage that can be sent to 12 possible email addresses, in Box #1. You up load any documents and choose which documents go to who. You can edit these documents at any time and change the addresses they will be sent to as needed. Box #1 is for your personal private letters to your closest lost friends and relatives.
We give you another 100mb. of unencrypted storage that can be sent to up to 50 email addresses, in Box #2. You can edit the documents and the addresses any time. Box #2 is for more generic documents to lost family & friends.
The cost is $40 for the first year. Re-subscription will be reduced as the number of subscribers increases. Tell your friends about You've Been left behind.
Ok, so apparently this website provides a service where, for $40 a year, a True Christian can store ‘left behind’ letters, survivalist info, million dollar tracts or whatever. Then when all the True Christians have been Raptured the stored materials will be auto-emailed to the left behinded loved ones.
Are you fucking shitting me? Really, if anyone is this stupid then they deserved to be ripped off. I say we stop fighting ‘em and join ‘em. People are going to throw their money away on this shit anyways, they might as well give it to me.
I gonna start working on my threats of Hell business model….
Services Overview
We have set up a system to send documents by the email, to the addresses you provide, 6 days after the "Rapture" of the Church. This occurs when 3 of our 5 team members scattered around the U.S fail to log in over a 3 day period. Another 3 days are given to fail safe any false triggering of the system.
We give you 150mb of encrypted storage that can be sent to 12 possible email addresses, in Box #1. You up load any documents and choose which documents go to who. You can edit these documents at any time and change the addresses they will be sent to as needed. Box #1 is for your personal private letters to your closest lost friends and relatives.
We give you another 100mb. of unencrypted storage that can be sent to up to 50 email addresses, in Box #2. You can edit the documents and the addresses any time. Box #2 is for more generic documents to lost family & friends.
The cost is $40 for the first year. Re-subscription will be reduced as the number of subscribers increases. Tell your friends about You've Been left behind.
Ok, so apparently this website provides a service where, for $40 a year, a True Christian can store ‘left behind’ letters, survivalist info, million dollar tracts or whatever. Then when all the True Christians have been Raptured the stored materials will be auto-emailed to the left behinded loved ones.
Are you fucking shitting me? Really, if anyone is this stupid then they deserved to be ripped off. I say we stop fighting ‘em and join ‘em. People are going to throw their money away on this shit anyways, they might as well give it to me.
I gonna start working on my threats of Hell business model….
Thursday, August 21, 2008
Big Xtian supersite...
If nothing else, the internet is a great time-wasting device. Maybe the best toy ever invented. Here's where I'll probably be wasting a little more of my time--a big Christian website.
Many of you may know them:
CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. Owned and/or run by Matt Slick.
I know they're Xtian, but still I'd say he's put a little work into his site. Nothing that can't be easily knocked down natcherly, but still I like his approach to apologetics somehow. (I mean this as a comment about his presentation only, not about his beliefs themselves. Doctrinally, he's garden variety evangelical, so far as I can tell. And about as easy to disarm.)
They even have a chat room. I've been there once, it was pretty cool. Interactive, real-time bronze-aged stupidity. If it was any more fun and bad for you it'd come with fries.
If somehow you're reading this, Matt--
You're Slick, I'll give you that. But I somehow doubt you're really going to fly like a kite someday. Sorry. That's just the hard truth, amigo.
Many of you may know them:
CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. Owned and/or run by Matt Slick.
I know they're Xtian, but still I'd say he's put a little work into his site. Nothing that can't be easily knocked down natcherly, but still I like his approach to apologetics somehow. (I mean this as a comment about his presentation only, not about his beliefs themselves. Doctrinally, he's garden variety evangelical, so far as I can tell. And about as easy to disarm.)
They even have a chat room. I've been there once, it was pretty cool. Interactive, real-time bronze-aged stupidity. If it was any more fun and bad for you it'd come with fries.
If somehow you're reading this, Matt--
You're Slick, I'll give you that. But I somehow doubt you're really going to fly like a kite someday. Sorry. That's just the hard truth, amigo.
The most Evil and Vile Atheist Plot ever Hatched- Exposed
As some of you know from an earlier comment,
that I have had my cover blown by a little high school kid out at the mall bookstore. It turns out that she is a classmate of my son's.
She shows up at a gathering at our house and exposes my devious ways. As I said, those knuckleheads set me up. However, I want to go national with this. You are in the bookstore and you find a Kirk or Ray book, surreptitiously sneak it (them) into the science fiction section. I'm sure that you cannot be like prosecuted or arrested for that.
And, by the way, then all the fundies will have an actual complaint to make about us evil bastards.
The best part is that they cannot retaliate. I am sure there is some scripture that prohibits this type of activity. Meanwhile, I am very conflicted about this vile activity, yet, I am emboldened and we need to go on the attack! Anarchy in the bookstores! (That one's for you, Weemaryanne.)
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