tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post6334958471953063796..comments2023-10-29T08:19:51.395-05:00Comments on The Raytractors - Ray Comfort's Detractors: Great comment of the day: Moral relativism double standardMacGyver Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02307024564664964571noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-47018092903373246312008-10-30T12:30:00.000-05:002008-10-30T12:30:00.000-05:00Agreed Chris.Agreed Chris.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-91454448215071884622008-10-30T11:45:00.000-05:002008-10-30T11:45:00.000-05:00While Aquinas had some nasty things to say about h...While Aquinas had some nasty things to say about heretics, he was internally consistent.<BR/>He would be shocked to know that today everyone can have a Bible in his own language to interpret at leisure.<BR/>I must say that having an authoritarian monopoly church that tells the people what is right and wrong with full authority over scriptural interpretation isn't such a bad idea regarding certain people's mindsets. Some people are just too instable, deluded and gullible to form sane opinions based on their personal faith and personal revelations.<BR/>Sadly this is diametrically opposed to human rights and freedom of expression.<BR/>If something like a classification of mindsets could be done, without harming people, and allowing them to independently form a world-view or faith only after they have proven themselves to be capable, that would be ideal. But for all we know, such a system would be much too vulnerable to abuse by control-freaks, fascists et al.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749925395851545703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-30417211251768391092008-10-30T00:35:00.000-05:002008-10-30T00:35:00.000-05:00@ W.E.MYou wrote "I think Mr. Aquinas would sympat...@ W.E.M<BR/><BR/>You wrote "I think Mr. Aquinas would sympathize with my (and your?) dismay at this."<BR/><BR/>I completely share your dismay. <BR/><BR/>@ Benjamin<BR/><BR/>I'll second W.E.M's reaction.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-36655984963919070822008-10-29T22:21:00.000-05:002008-10-29T22:21:00.000-05:00Whateverman said:"No only this, but anything they ...<B>Whateverman said:<BR/><BR/>"No only this, but anything they parse from reading the Bible constitutes "God's orders"."</B><BR/><BR/>And this is the real, tangible danger of fundamentalist thought.<BR/><BR/>It is dangerous because, whether God exists or not, the bible can be mined for information that supports ANY action, from the most glorious to the utterly depraved.<BR/><BR/>The nest of contradictions within the Bible, let alone the masses upon masses of arcane commentary revising and interpreting the scriptures can be used to carry out any action and justify it as the righteous will of God.<BR/><BR/>The very doctrine of Christianity says that repentance is more important than being free of sin.<BR/><BR/>My horror really starts when I think about the fact that there IS no God so therefore the Bible, rather than being inerrant and yet misunderstood, is in fact the mere creation of ignorant and flawed men from an ignorant and insular culture. Men who probably had an agenda that was malign to a great part of the population at the time.<BR/><BR/>What a great basis to build a moral foundation on.alphgeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15124713334412648372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-76993236082538698222008-10-29T21:20:00.000-05:002008-10-29T21:20:00.000-05:00By the way, BenF, I scared the crap outta the cat ...By the way, BenF, I scared the crap outta the cat by laughing out loud at that :)Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-39744189814463049372008-10-29T20:43:00.000-05:002008-10-29T20:43:00.000-05:00Chris, I agree that Aquinas could/should be a powe...Chris, I agree that Aquinas could/should be a powerful force for sanity within Christianity. I've enjoyed reading some of his stuff and even quote him to rebuke contemporary Christian thought.<BR/><BR/>Sadly, this book that's supposed to be the inerrant word of God seems to be inerrantly interpretted by different people who come to different conclusions about what it means.<BR/><BR/>I think Mr. Aquinas would sympathize with my (and your?) dismay at this.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-61308225292356476632008-10-29T20:32:00.000-05:002008-10-29T20:32:00.000-05:00@ froggieI couldn't agree more. @ W.E.M.Chris...@ froggie<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more. <BR/><BR/>@ W.E.M.<BR/><BR/>Christian thought doesn't HAVE to be inconsistent. For example Aquinas [a Catholic philosopher] argued that faith must ALWAYS be understood through the use of reason.<BR/><BR/>In fact he actually went further. Aquinas argued that expressions of faith had the potential to arouse such emotions that unless such emotions [and the faith from which they had come] were guided & controlled by reason it lead inevitably to insanity or atrocity.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-91472205275940682272008-10-29T20:31:00.000-05:002008-10-29T20:31:00.000-05:00And here I thought that moral relativism was when ...And here I thought that moral relativism was when people from Alabama think it's OK to do your your 1st cousin.Benjamin Franklinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00975695604400974378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-79709308692454872772008-10-29T20:18:00.000-05:002008-10-29T20:18:00.000-05:00They follow God's arbitrary orders no matter what....<I>They follow God's arbitrary orders no matter what.</I><BR/><BR/>No only this, but anything they parse from reading the Bible constitutes "God's orders".<BR/><BR/>So, they could justify killing kittens today if Leviticus says so, but puppies tomorrow if they come to a more enlightened understanding.<BR/><BR/>Focus the criticism on the inconsistency of Christian thought/understanding, rather than pointing out the embarassing behavior displayed by individual Christians.<BR/><BR/>IMHOWhatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-21899587044743275722008-10-29T20:02:00.000-05:002008-10-29T20:02:00.000-05:00Chris,It is my opinion that the movie in discussio...Chris,<BR/>It is my opinion that the movie in discussion has more real moral lessons than most of the bible.<BR/><BR/>As does Moby Dick, The Gulag Archepelaago, War and Peace, On the Slopes of Mt Kilamenjaro, etc, &et.<BR/><BR/>The bible is kindergarden shit compared to the literary genius that has been produced since.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-68470572405248586322008-10-29T19:57:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:57:00.000-05:00@ froggieAnd we have a winner. :DWell done!@ froggie<BR/><BR/>And we have a winner. :D<BR/><BR/>Well done!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-37093441412191781562008-10-29T19:55:00.001-05:002008-10-29T19:55:00.001-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-7315370047027328922008-10-29T19:55:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:55:00.000-05:00Chris,"Cool Hand Luke"Chris,<BR/>"Cool Hand Luke"Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-37928602870020438242008-10-29T19:54:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:54:00.000-05:00@ W.E.MI see your point. Although God's actions c...@ W.E.M<BR/><BR/>I see your point. <BR/><BR/>Although God's actions could be defined by this as entirely arbitrary [the equivalent of God deciding what to do by rolling a dice] the Ray fundie christians ARE being entirely consistent.<BR/><BR/>They follow God's arbitrary orders no matter what.<BR/><BR/>Hmmm this bares some thinking.<BR/><BR/>Good point W.E.M. Thank you.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-41229015725112714262008-10-29T19:46:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:46:00.000-05:00It's a tough conversation to nail down, which is w...It's a tough conversation to nail down, which is why I'm tempted to sit on the fence for a while.<BR/><BR/>The Christian fundamentalists this group is fond of mocking would be entirely self-consistent in asserting that moral relativism is limited only to humanity. <BR/><BR/>In defining what's acceptable and what is not, God could change his mind tomorrow and tell us <I>Give me your weak, your tired, your first-born. Rawrr!</I> and it would be perfectly moral and absolute.<BR/><BR/>When they argue for absolutes, what they're really saying is "Whatever this God dude says is absolute".<BR/><BR/>That's it. There's no subtle undercurrent of hypocrisy or inconsistency.<BR/><BR/>Don't y'all get it? The fundies strive to create a system in which they can justify anything by claiming that the Bible says so. This waffling on morale relativism is nothing more than evidence of that very same thing.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-46608633547464314762008-10-29T19:35:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:35:00.000-05:00@ W.E.MHey :DYou are personally invited to jump in...@ W.E.M<BR/><BR/>Hey :D<BR/><BR/>You are personally invited to jump in anytime. :DChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-88159746318413287032008-10-29T19:31:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:31:00.000-05:00Interesting discussion...Interesting discussion...Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-10257372397323225372008-10-29T19:29:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:29:00.000-05:00SorryThat should read "You are arguing that fundie...Sorry<BR/><BR/>That should read "You are arguing that fundie christians would be engaged in relativism by defining each arbitrary action of such a God as good."Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-47500663759350765972008-10-29T19:23:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:23:00.000-05:00@ G.E.I think what we have here is a failure to co...@ G.E.<BR/><BR/>I think what we have here is a failure to communicate :D [5 points if you can identify the movie]<BR/><BR/>You wrote "Even if people state that whatever god does is right, it is relative to that deity."<BR/><BR/>My reply: I totally agree. I am arguing that God is not relative in His actions according to the definition given. You are arguing [& I agree with you] that fundie christians would be engaged in relativism by following such a God.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-55795587902107173102008-10-29T19:17:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:17:00.000-05:00Sorry Chris, but I think you are taking every word...Sorry Chris, but I think you are taking every word in that definition too much at heart. Using a dictionary of philosophy does not change the meaning of the word "relative."<BR/><BR/>Moral relativism is moral relativism. Even if people state that whatever god does is right, it is relative to that deity. Even if a philosophy dictionary seems to define it from the point of view of a judge, it is still relative. Cannot be objective. Come on. Now look for moral objectivism, if it exists.<BR/><BR/>Will we keep refuting each other on something that seems so clear?<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-18193789719540601422008-10-29T19:15:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:15:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-54992984568298093902008-10-29T19:05:00.000-05:002008-10-29T19:05:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-90533480377909670232008-10-29T18:59:00.000-05:002008-10-29T18:59:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-25641060250934184422008-10-29T18:40:00.000-05:002008-10-29T18:40:00.000-05:00@ Tripmaster MonkeyI couldn't agree with you more....@ Tripmaster Monkey<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree with you more.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-80562701458487518952008-10-29T18:38:00.000-05:002008-10-29T18:38:00.000-05:00Wow...I'm the subject a Raytractors post. I'm hon...Wow...I'm the <I>subject</I> a Raytractors post. I'm honored. Seriously.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I just need to say one thing to mrfreethinker (and others) before I skip off to bask in the glory of my newfound stardom: you <I>do</I> realize that saying God is always righteous because anything God does is <I>by definition</I> "righteous" is a tautology, and therefore meaningless, right?TripMaster Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780570912044493356noreply@blogger.com