tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post5186104183939966991..comments2023-10-29T08:19:51.395-05:00Comments on The Raytractors - Ray Comfort's Detractors: Reply to Jean Gasho-MusukaMacGyver Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02307024564664964571noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-36523778678818790722008-08-05T00:57:00.000-05:002008-08-05T00:57:00.000-05:00Most of the time I wade through the posts I find t...Most of the time I wade through the posts I find that someone else has already stated what I was going to say. Thanks guys, I appreciate it. :)felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749925395851545703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-5764074819777263542008-08-04T18:46:00.000-05:002008-08-04T18:46:00.000-05:00Ray's clearly lying about his links policy too, br...Ray's clearly lying about his links policy too, brittany. You don't have to take my word for it, either. You already know that accusation is true. Look at how many times Ray's fave Christian troll Terry Burton has been allowed to post URLs over our objections.<BR/><BR/>And if he's lying about that--what else is he lying about?captain howdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965531249778332106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-45058003024314532512008-08-04T18:37:00.000-05:002008-08-04T18:37:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.captain howdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965531249778332106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-88288339844366587682008-08-04T13:36:00.000-05:002008-08-04T13:36:00.000-05:00Brittany:What do you think would happen if a non-b...Brittany:<BR/><BR/>What do you think would happen if a non-believer tried to post a link to The Panda's Thumb or Talk Origins or The Richard Dawkins' site over on Ray's blog?:-)TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-57354228376311419552008-08-04T13:25:00.000-05:002008-08-04T13:25:00.000-05:00Brittany,I read through the link. Here are the pr...Brittany,<BR/><BR/>I read through the link. Here are the problems with it:<BR/><BR/>The author makes several points, all of which are thoroughly debunked reasons for belief in a deity.<BR/><BR/>In point 1 they use the argument from design.<BR/><BR/>In point 2 they use the argument from irreducible complexity. <BR/><BR/>In point 3 they use the God probability argument.<BR/><BR/>In point 4 they use the argument ad populum.<BR/><BR/>In point 5 they use the argument from personal experience.<BR/><BR/>Point 6 is an appeal to emotion and also an attempted argument from scripture.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I may have missed some, or skipped some, but in looking at the link in brief that is what I came up with.nonmagichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12986030395050670437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-40258321601177966242008-08-04T13:22:00.000-05:002008-08-04T13:22:00.000-05:00Hi Brittany,Your link here: http://www.everystuden...Hi Brittany,<BR/><BR/>Your link here: http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html<BR/><BR/>is full of often de-bunked arguments for god. If you'd like, myself or another Raytrator could explain to you why we reject each of those arguments.<BR/><BR/>Have a nice day,<BR/><BR/>Maragon. =)Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-26265193051551054512008-08-04T13:11:00.000-05:002008-08-04T13:11:00.000-05:00^shoot, those verses were out of Exodus, for the r...^shoot, those verses were out of Exodus, for the record.theaceofclubzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04288501494742324121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-24210326832437438422008-08-04T12:54:00.000-05:002008-08-04T12:54:00.000-05:00Jean, I don't even want to know how it's possible ...Jean, I don't even want to know how it's possible to enslave a person "in a godly way."<BR/><BR/><B>Fail</B>Weemaryannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06329039927702839707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-1428527256125440142008-08-04T12:37:00.000-05:002008-08-04T12:37:00.000-05:00And I dont believe its wrong if its done in a godl...<I>And I dont believe its wrong if its done in a godly way.</I><BR/><BR/>20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.<BR/><BR/> 21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. (KJV)<BR/><BR/>Really?theaceofclubzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04288501494742324121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-8105657504445653952008-08-04T11:59:00.000-05:002008-08-04T11:59:00.000-05:00About slavery all the answers are in the bible for...About slavery all the answers are in the bible for you. <BR/>Slaves are told to be obedient to their masters, and masters are told to be fair to their slaves. The bible does not say slavery is wrong. And I dont believe its wrong if its done in a godly way. In biblical times, slaves did actually benefit from slavery because they had nothing to live on. <BR/>I myself am a slave of Christ, I was bought by the blood of Jesus. I do not do my will but my master's will. <BR/>Non Christians are slaves of their master, the Devil. <BR/>Every person is a slave anyway.Mimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184580454541836684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-53102981050263537152008-08-04T11:57:00.000-05:002008-08-04T11:57:00.000-05:00atheist/non-believers,I was cruising the internet ...atheist/non-believers,<BR/><BR/>I was cruising the internet and found this interesting piece of work written by a former atheist. <BR/>I read this and thought about all you guys here and thought I would share. <BR/><BR/>Hope you enjoy!<BR/><BR/>http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html<BR/><BR/>In Christian Love,<BR/>BrittanyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-85036988462479950492008-08-04T11:51:00.000-05:002008-08-04T11:51:00.000-05:00@Jean--You asked:So Ray does pose some sort of thr...@Jean--<BR/><BR/>You asked:<BR/><BR/><I>So Ray does pose some sort of threat to atheists as you have admitted. intersting! <BR/><BR/>What threat does he pose in the 'socio-political realm' which is quite 'serious and severe'?</I><BR/><BR/>as well as:<BR/><BR/><I>Why are you so afraid of us pushing our beliefs on others- are you scared that they may be converted and believe in the one true God of the bible. Why does that concern you?</I><BR/><BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/><BR/>Fair enough questions, and deserve a straight answer. Here it is:<BR/><BR/><I>It is wrong to teach evolution in schools because it is not a fact but a theory.</I><BR/><BR/><I>Even though you hate God you cannot stop Him. That is why children should be tought the Word Of God, especially children of atheists and other false religions.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/><I> Any woman who kills her unborn baby is actually a murderer. For that reason no true Christian should ever vote for anyone who is pro-abortion. This is why I have to say I do not support Barack Obama and will do my best to encourage others not to vote for him. Abortion should never be an option for any woman, it is evil.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Christianity should be tought in Schools because it is the only true religion. There is only one God and every child should be tought about their Maker.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>You ask why we oppose people like Ray? You answered those questions yourself!<BR/><BR/>We oppose Ray because his ministry churns out smiling, hollow chanters of scripture who elected the clown Geo. W Bush to the White House 2X, and who would turn the clock back 2000 years. I have no interest in your "pure", Biblical Taliban-like utopia, thanks just the same.<BR/><BR/><BR/>If I can ask: Would you have America go back to original, 10-commandments based law? Like in the Old Testament?captain howdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965531249778332106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-79220060599266213142008-08-04T11:03:00.000-05:002008-08-04T11:03:00.000-05:00Jean Gasho-Musuka said...There is absolute proof t...Jean Gasho-Musuka said...<BR/><BR/><I>There is absolute proof that God is real. Firstly His glory is revealed in creation. </I><BR/><BR/>Nah, the FSM did it. Just look at all the proof!<BR/><BR/><I>Your conscience bears witness, the law of God, you know the ten commandments are written on your heart.</I><BR/>As it happens, I've seen my actual hearth, thanks to some surgery and a surgeon I know. I can assure you nothing was written on it.<BR/><BR/><I>The fact that you hate him so much also testifies about God because the bible says you are born God- hating, a sinner. </I><BR/><BR/>I cannot hate something that doesn't exist, so I don't hate any god or goddess. As for the sinning, can't say I care to much. Since to me the bible is just another book like the torah, quran, snow white and the seven dwarfs and all the other fairy tales and myths.<BR/>Question for you: The bible has a lot about slavery, how much slaves cost, how much you can beat them etc. Does that mean so think we should go back to slavery? It's in the bible, so you can't disagree it's fully within the word of the lord to keep slaves. Now looking at your avatar, I wonder if you really want to take the full text of the bible as the truth to be obeyed.<BR/><BR/>How can you defend the bible, when that same book promotes slavery, misogyny and genocide?C3P0R2D2https://www.blogger.com/profile/07486243877928982309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-67260051050625463872008-08-04T09:21:00.000-05:002008-08-04T09:21:00.000-05:00Jean,Lance christian... would not have a problem w...Jean,<BR/><BR/><I>Lance christian... would not have a problem with you teaching the true word of God, the bible.</I><BR/><BR/>Even though I don't believe it? Don't you think that I'd subvert the message a bit? And trust me, I'm pretty subversive.<BR/><BR/><I>Your conscience bears witness, the law of God, you know the ten commandments are written on your heart.</I><BR/><BR/>Not working on the Sabbath is written on my heart? Shoot, and here I was planning on homebrewing. I guess I can also forget about making that graven image, since I guess that's on my heart.<BR/><BR/>Come on, Jean, that's an absurd statement.Lance Christian Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14662783824480475026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-54940593830706602822008-08-04T09:12:00.000-05:002008-08-04T09:12:00.000-05:00"The Only True Religion"Brittany, Jean, if either ..."The Only True Religion"<BR/><BR/>Brittany, Jean, if either of you had read any history then you would know how many times those words have been backed up by violence.Weemaryannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06329039927702839707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-3976241379729954182008-08-04T07:38:00.000-05:002008-08-04T07:38:00.000-05:00Jean Gasho-Musuka,You said,"There is absolute proo...Jean Gasho-Musuka,<BR/>You said,<BR/>"There is absolute proof that God is real."<BR/><BR/>Along with Hypothesis and Theory, you also need to check into the definition of the word "Proof."<BR/><BR/>Trust me, you don't have any proof, which equates to empiricle evidence.<BR/><BR/>"I know in my heart"- Not proof<BR/>"The bible says.."- Not Proof<BR/>"Ken Ham said..."- Not Proof<BR/>"Look into a child's eyes."- Not Proof<BR/><BR/>"Look at nature" - Not Proof<BR/><BR/>Now, when yopu do come up with some "Proof," please let me know because you will instantly become the most famous person in the entire universe.<BR/><BR/>Religion is a philosophy combined with superstitions; nothing more.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-79879682903131886522008-08-04T07:24:00.000-05:002008-08-04T07:24:00.000-05:00Look,you two would suggest that evolution should n...Look,<BR/>you two would suggest that evolution should not be taught in schools because it is simply a theory. Then you say that Christianity should be taught in Schools because the God of Christianity is the one true God. We say, "there is no God". and you say, "prove it". <BR/><BR/>Do you see the problem with this? In the one case you say the burden of proof is on the scientists to prove that evolution exists and is not simply a theory. Following that the burden of proof is on you to prove that God exists. <BR/><BR/>So, <BR/>lets see your proof please.Andrew Louishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18204999524677028033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-71317779621837491052008-08-04T07:22:00.000-05:002008-08-04T07:22:00.000-05:00Jean Gasho-Musuka,You said, "It is wrong to teach ...Jean Gasho-Musuka,<BR/><BR/>You said, <BR/>"It is wrong to teach evolution in schools because it is not a fact but a theory." <BR/><BR/>It is obvious that you have no understanding whatsoever about the natural sciences, especially biology and evolution. It's OK though, most Chrisdtians are in the same boat. So, science challenged people then must take quotes from people like Ken Ham to defend their faith.<BR/><BR/>Let me put it like this. Say I am a lawyer. You are an elementary school teacher. We meet at a social affair and you try to pass yourself off as a lawyer. I will instantly know that you are a fraud and a phoney. Now, it is obvious that you are a fraud and a phoney where it comes to science because in every beginning science course starting in junior high school, within the first two classes of the course, the definition of scientific hypothesis and scientific theory is discussed at length.<BR/><BR/>You do not even have an elementary inderstanding of what you are so certain of. <BR/><BR/>So, take a lesson:<BR/><BR/>In the natural sciences, Theory is the highest degree of certainty granted to scientific explanations.<BR/><BR/>"Theory" of gravity- Germ "Theory"<BR/><BR/>A "Theory" has to meet many criteria including that it must be fasifiable, which evolution could be falsified in any number of ways, and it must predict future findings, which the theory of evolution continues to do. It also must have empirical evidence, of which there is a vast amount of evidence for evolution.<BR/><BR/>When you say to look at the universe- that proves the existence of a god, that is an opinion. There is no evidence. It cannot be falsified (I say there is an invisible being in the closet in my den- you cannot falsify that and I cannot provide evidence.)<BR/><BR/>There is no need for you to respond to this because you will only repeat the crackpot answers that you have memorized and trust me, we've heard them all.<BR/><BR/>You might want to look up some of the key words that I have used in this comment and come to an understanding of their meanings. I don't even ask you to accept evolution but you come off as churlish and lazy with your lame, tired and worn out lies.<BR/><BR/>Next. You are constantly stating that we "hate" god. That is just not so. I have no emnity for any mythical beings. Could I hate, the easter bunny, santa claus, Zeus, Thor, Poseidon? Of course not. Don't be silly.<BR/><BR/>I am a staunch defender of the first ammendment though, as you will see. The first ammendment is the only reason that all the competing christian sects in this country aren't at perpetual war for the control of the government.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-5383520947943601602008-08-04T05:48:00.000-05:002008-08-04T05:48:00.000-05:00C3p0r2d2 said There is NO proof whatsoever that yo...C3p0r2d2 said<BR/> There is NO proof whatsoever that your deity is real, or if he is real, that he created anything at all. <BR/>Personally I believe the Flying spaghetti monster created us all. <BR/><BR/>There is absolute proof that God is real. Firstly His glory is revealed in creation. Your conscience bears witness, the law of God, you know the ten commandments are written on your heart. The fact that you hate him so much also testifies about God because the bible says you are born God- hating, a sinner. <BR/><BR/>About the Spaghetti monster, for a start I dont hate it. Dont go out of my way to discredit its followers like you. Dont feel its a threat to free thinking.... Am not angry about it. See the difference?<BR/><BR/>Lance christian... would not have a problem with you teaching the true word of God, the bible.<BR/><BR/>And about Answers in Genesis, i know Ken Ham, have actually been to his conferences, but dont agree with everything he says. Hes not my enemy though, or a threat...Mimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184580454541836684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-62568818523119025292008-08-04T02:37:00.000-05:002008-08-04T02:37:00.000-05:00Jean Gasho-Musuka said...Christianity should be to...Jean Gasho-Musuka said...<BR/><BR/><I>Christianity should be tought in Schools because it is the only true religion. There is only one God and every child should be tought about their Maker.</I><BR/><BR/>That's an assertion you make. There is NO proof whatsoever that your deity is real, or if he is real, that he created anything at all. <BR/>Personally I believe the Flying spaghetti monster created us all. <BR/><BR/>So let's start teaching that in schools. And while they are at it, don't forget the norse Odin myth, the invisible Pink unicorn, Islam, Budhism, Mormonism, The juju of the mountain, The fact that the Japanese Emporer was a God untill the end of WW-II, The egyptian gods, Roman gods, Greek gods, Keltic gods, Azted gods, Mayan gods and the rest.<BR/><BR/>I have nothing against teaching children about religion, but then teach them about all (mayor) religions. Don't just teach them one of the thousands of possible gods and ignore the rest. Also explain that the evidence for all gods is precisely the same <B> NONE</B>. That's why you use words like 'believe', 'dogma' and 'faith'. Simply because there is no evidence at all to proof your god exists, let alone that he (she?) created anything.<BR/><BR/>Also I noticed in one of your posts that your argument against evolution was that it's just a theory. That argument is so lame that even Answers in Genesis says you should not use it. Now if even they say it's lame, it must be really really really lame. When ever you use that argument try to remember that gravity is also just a theory... <A>http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp</A>C3P0R2D2https://www.blogger.com/profile/07486243877928982309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-6756635656830121442008-08-04T01:36:00.000-05:002008-08-04T01:36:00.000-05:00Jean and brittney--I gave a little shout-out to yo...Jean and brittney--<BR/><BR/>I gave a little shout-out to you both...<BR/><BR/>Welcome to Raytractors!captain howdyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965531249778332106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-13660429981333576852008-08-03T23:07:00.000-05:002008-08-03T23:07:00.000-05:00Brittany & Jean,A couple of serious questions ...Brittany & Jean,<BR/><BR/>A couple of serious questions for the both of you. First of all, I'm going to assume that when you say that Christianity should be taught in schools, you mean that it should be taught as though it's all true, correct? After all, I teach <B>about</B> Christianity in my class, as I do about many other world religions, but I don't comment on its truthfulness one way or the other. I tell my students that it's up to them to decide what to believe.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, assuming that my assumption is true, my questions are:<BR/><BR/>1. Would you trust me to teach it? After all, I am a teacher, yet I am an atheist. Do you really think that I'd teach it the way you'd want it to be taught? Do you believe that people like me should be fired then? If so, then what about separation of church and state? Do you not believe in that concept?<BR/><BR/>2. Which version of Christianity do you think should be taught? Orthodox? Catholic? Lutheran? Fundamentalism? It's not like there's complete agreement amongst Christians.<BR/><BR/>I honestly wonder if either of you have considered either of those two things with your statements. I could be wrong though, so I'd appreciate a response.Lance Christian Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14662783824480475026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-10742227417154693742008-08-03T22:50:00.000-05:002008-08-03T22:50:00.000-05:00"Yet, it( the bible/scripture) just answered your ..."Yet, it( the bible/scripture) just answered your fact. Truthfully."<BR/><BR/>No, it didn't. All your silly book did was predict that multiple people would be too intelligent to believe in it. I'm sure the Koran, the Torah and any other holy book makes similar claims. How do you answer to them?<BR/><BR/>"The word of God is truth, yet you reject the truth. Why?"<BR/><BR/>I reject all things that are illogical and unproven. Why do you not?Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-67958815829688244732008-08-03T22:28:00.000-05:002008-08-03T22:28:00.000-05:00Jean:Yawn.....You are parroting worn-out fundament...Jean:<BR/><BR/>Yawn.....<BR/><BR/>You are parroting worn-out fundamentalist talking points.<BR/><BR/>1. You think a theory is simply a guess. This isn't the case when the term is used by scientists. Scientific theories are strongly backed by evidence. Since you apparently don't understand this, no one is going to take you seriously when you comment on evolution or science. You think it must be wrong because it somehow violates your common sense. Science doesn't care if something agrees with your common sense or not. It goes where the evidence leads. Do you think quantum mechanics is common sense?<BR/><BR/>2. Google Pascal's Wager and you'll see why it is a lame argument that won't convince any atheist.<BR/><BR/>3. I don't know exactly how things work in the UK, but US public schools are not permitted to advocate Christianity. It is a violation of the first amendment. Just because you think it is the only true religion does not make it a fact. There is no evidence to demonstrate it as such.<BR/><BR/>I now charge you, go forth and find some better arguments. I suggest you find them somewhere other than Ray Comfort's blog.Randohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11425693090292259069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-29147180075452224362008-08-03T22:11:00.000-05:002008-08-03T22:11:00.000-05:00maragon,"Please don't assume that I care about or ...maragon,<BR/><BR/>"Please don't assume that I care about or am swayed by anything that your book of fables says. I regard the bible in the same way you regard the Koran - something men made up."<BR/><BR/>Yet, it( the bible/scripture) just answered your fact. Truthfully.<BR/><BR/>The word of God is truth, yet you reject the truth. Why? <BR/><BR/>In Christian Love,<BR/>BrittanyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com