tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post4139675925728586815..comments2023-10-29T08:19:51.395-05:00Comments on The Raytractors - Ray Comfort's Detractors: I had to say it....MacGyver Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02307024564664964571noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-22621880921296122232008-10-28T21:11:00.000-05:002008-10-28T21:11:00.000-05:00My friend Chris,I do see the problem. They either ...My friend Chris,<BR/><BR/>I do see the problem. They either don't or they pretend they don't. That is the whole point of their tool. To them (whether they notice or not I no longer know) when we deny their stupid argument, no matter how clearly we explain it, they have the escape clauses. Let me show you:<BR/><BR/><I>How do we KNOW that such a being reveals Himself to anyone?</I><BR/><BR/>Because He does it in a way that <B>WE</B> can be certain of it.<BR/><BR/><I>And if we do know that how can we KNOW that such a revelation would be correctly interpreted?</I><BR/><BR/>Because He does it in a way that we <B>CAN</B> be certain of it.<BR/><BR/><I>And if we know that how do we judge between people who claim such revelaions& utter fruitcakes who declare "God has spoken to me!"</I><BR/><BR/>You are not saying that God could not reveal it to us in a way that we can be certain, are you? That would be BEGGING THE QUESTION! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! ;-D<BR/><BR/>See? It is easy! You then might be annoyed that I actually ignored your last point, and if you insulted me, I would declare victory and say that, obviously, since you cannot justify logic (or you do not have an answer to my questions), you got mad. Obviously showing that you deny the truth in unrighteousness.<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-88020426313492131082008-10-28T20:54:00.000-05:002008-10-28T20:54:00.000-05:00@ G.EYou wrote "Their godie reveals it to the...@ G.E<BR/><BR/>You wrote "Their godie reveals it to them in a way that they can be certain of it. (In other words, they imagine that they know for certain just because they think there is a god who actually speaks to them."<BR/><BR/>There's a problem with such an answer. Let's for the sake of argument accept that God is real.<BR/><BR/>How do we KNOW that such a being reveals Himself to anyone? And if we do know that how can we KNOW that such a revelation would be correctly interpreted? And if we know that how do we judge between people who claim such revelaions& utter fruitcakes who declare "God has spoken to me!"<BR/><BR/>After all even the most militant fundie must admit there it is far more common for people to lie or be delusional than God granting important revelations to people. <BR/><BR/>Just replying "Well God told me whom to trust" solves nothing. They themselves might be becoming delusional. <BR/><BR/>See the problem?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-81508628281945075632008-10-28T20:47:00.000-05:002008-10-28T20:47:00.000-05:00@ W.E.MYou wrote "Actually, it's entirely...@ W.E.M<BR/><BR/>You wrote "Actually, it's entirely possible that we finite human beings could discover and by accident label something absolute truth."<BR/><BR/>Ah but i we only accidentally correctly label something as absolute truth then we can't claim it as knowledge. After all knowledge is defined as justified true belief.<BR/><BR/>Such an accidental labeling would indeed be a belief & true but not justified. <BR/><BR/>Sorry I didn't explain myself well before.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-11260627336548440662008-10-28T18:50:00.000-05:002008-10-28T18:50:00.000-05:00Chris wrote 2) Since we are finite human beings wh...Chris wrote <I>2) Since we are finite human beings who cannot see all times & all places how would we recognise an absolute truth if we found it? </I><BR/><BR/>Actually, it's entirely possible that we finite human beings could discover and by accident label something absolute truth.<BR/><BR/>The greater danger, by far, lies in incorrectly identifying such a thing. As imperfect beings, we are by design incapable of confirming whether a truth is absolute or not.<BR/><BR/>In short, I'd rather err on the side of caution (ie. nothing is absolute) rather than guarantee failure (ie. absolutes exist)Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-83991342643352788832008-10-28T18:34:00.000-05:002008-10-28T18:34:00.000-05:002) Since we are finite human beings who cannot see...<I>2) Since we are finite human beings who cannot see all times & all places how would we recognise an absolute truth if we found it?</I><BR/><BR/>Their godie reveals it to them in a way that they can be certain of it. (In other words, they imagine that they know for certain just because they think there is a god who actually speaks to them. As of me, of course, I am "begging the question" that their godie cannot reveal things to them in a way that they can be certain of it.)<BR/><BR/>Guys, even I can do it now! I am sick. Going to vomit BDUAAAAAGHH!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-43455294413053054992008-10-28T18:28:00.000-05:002008-10-28T18:28:00.000-05:00I am certainly certain that their certainty is bul...I am certainly certain that their certainty is bullshit. And I do not give a damn. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-73576807673524254722008-10-28T18:27:00.000-05:002008-10-28T18:27:00.000-05:00I insist, short comments, just play with them, do ...I insist, short comments, just play with them, do not give them so much stuff. Otherwise they find what they are looking for ... futile. I should insist.<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-46903762005675311832008-10-28T17:30:00.000-05:002008-10-28T17:30:00.000-05:00@ FreeAn absolute truth is something which is true...@ Free<BR/><BR/>An absolute truth is something which is true in all times & in all places.<BR/><BR/>Two questions spring from this.<BR/><BR/>1) How in the world can you have a partial absolute truth? [you listed that as one of the optional answers].<BR/><BR/>2) Since we are finite human beings who cannot see all times & all places how would we recognise an absolute truth if we found it?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-23010877473489992052008-10-28T09:14:00.000-05:002008-10-28T09:14:00.000-05:00MrFreeThinker said... Maragon is the statement ...MrFreeThinker said...<BR/><BR/> Maragon is the statement<BR/> "Absolutes do not exist"<BR/> 1)Absolutely true<BR/> 2)partially true<BR/> 3)false<BR/> I would be glad to hear your answer<BR/><BR/>None of the above. It's objectively, or marginally true.<BR/><BR/>It's your(and Mike's and Sye's) misuse of language that creates issues here.Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-29564098702745804272008-10-28T08:36:00.000-05:002008-10-28T08:36:00.000-05:00MF wrote Maragon said "Absolutes do not exist" for...MF wrote <I>Maragon said "Absolutes do not exist" for this to be true- her aforementioned statement would have to be absolutely true</I><BR/><BR/>False.<BR/><BR/>"Absolutes do not exist" is a statement made by a being with limited perspective. It can be interpretted as "To the best of my knowledge, I have never found an 'absolute', and do not believe they exist".<BR/><BR/>I (Whateverman) assert that absolutes do not exist. If someone can show me otherwise, I'll change my opinion (yes, that IS what we're really talking about here. Opinion, not fact). Until that happens, however, I can;t remember any hypothetical situation in which it was impossible to question the veracity or <I>truthiness</I> of the subject.<BR/><BR/>This is true of opinion, legal issues, physics, psychology - and even math.Whatevermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458601080799278850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-26049406457201299572008-10-28T07:46:00.000-05:002008-10-28T07:46:00.000-05:00Maragon is the statement"Absolutes do not exist"1)...Maragon is the statement<BR/>"Absolutes do not exist"<BR/>1)Absolutely true<BR/>2)partially true<BR/>3)false<BR/>I would be glad to hear your answerMrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-45673674850149137622008-10-28T00:54:00.000-05:002008-10-28T00:54:00.000-05:00Heh heh, I like being able to insult people over h...Heh heh, I like being able to insult people over here without breaking my debate poker face over there. In some cases, it's easier to expose stupidity if I'm not insulting them.<BR/><BR/>Of course, in other cases, <A HREF="http://provingthebible.blogspot.com/2008/09/veil-that-blinds.html?showComment=1225168500000#c4625857979773088379" REL="nofollow">I don't have to bother</A>.Quasarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04219765882891909223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-61549871988478445092008-10-27T23:59:00.000-05:002008-10-27T23:59:00.000-05:00@ FreeYou wrote "Maragon said "Absolutes do not ex...@ Free<BR/><BR/>You wrote "Maragon said "Absolutes do not exist" for this to be true- her aforementioned statement would have to be absolutely true."<BR/><BR/>Totally false. For Maragon to state that no absolutes exist all that would be necessary would be for such a statement to be objectively true. No absolute truth necessary.<BR/><BR/>Is that what you meant Free? That when SCMike makes such silly mistakes you like to laugh at him? <BR/><BR/>Give the poor guy a break! I don't think SCMike can help making such stupid errors. After all he has shown himself to be intellectually challenged time after time.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-18483487943114956302008-10-27T23:52:00.000-05:002008-10-27T23:52:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-83297697212203464232008-10-27T23:49:00.000-05:002008-10-27T23:49:00.000-05:00@ FreeBy the way little man you still haven't just...@ Free<BR/><BR/>By the way little man you still haven't justified your own use of induction. <BR/><BR/>You claim that it is justified by a revelation from an unchanging God.<BR/><BR/>But how do you know God's revelation are trustworthy? How do you know He is unchanging?<BR/><BR/>Let me guess...induction? :D<BR/><BR/>I guess I'm good at exposing the weakness of people's world view too. What do you know. :DChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-65244635128767186102008-10-27T23:46:00.000-05:002008-10-27T23:46:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08281025205602142063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-84221407247045981782008-10-27T20:37:00.000-05:002008-10-27T20:37:00.000-05:00Isn't it amazing that after months of this that Mr...Isn't it amazing that after months of this that Mr. Freethinker is still making the most fundamental mistakes?<BR/><BR/>Saying that absolutes don't exist is not appealing to any sort of absolute standard. It's an assertion based on the available evidence that is held to be marginally true.<BR/><BR/>To say it's anything else is to completely misunderstand(read: lie about) what we've been trying to explain to you people for months.Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-72727659300323394902008-10-27T20:33:00.000-05:002008-10-27T20:33:00.000-05:00MFT,This is the kind of stupidity I just can't sta...MFT,<BR/><BR/>This is the kind of stupidity I just can't stand:<BR/><BR/><I>Scmike refuted Maragon's entire worldview with 4 words.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Entire</B> worldview?<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-36334549110913425472008-10-27T20:19:00.000-05:002008-10-27T20:19:00.000-05:00Maragon said "Absolutes do not exist" for this to ...Maragon said "Absolutes do not exist" for this to be true- her aforementioned statement would have to be absolutely true. Therefore absolutes wold have to exist. If her statement was not absolutely true, then it would only be partially true and absolutes would also exist.<BR/>Scmike refuted Maragon's entire worldview with 4 words.MrFreeThinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778096949945818236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-46389643412030711872008-10-27T19:07:00.000-05:002008-10-27T19:07:00.000-05:00Hey, Jean and Mr Freethinker: mind sharing the jok...Hey, Jean and Mr Freethinker: mind sharing the joke with the rest of the class? <BR/><BR/>What does "absolutely true" even <I>mean</I>?Quasarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04219765882891909223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-5623136793014756442008-10-27T18:34:00.000-05:002008-10-27T18:34:00.000-05:00Mrfreethiker said"the priceless one was when Marag...Mrfreethiker said<BR/>"the priceless one was when Maragon said there were no absolutes and then mike asked here is that was absolutely true. "<BR/><BR/>Wow! Very funny....Mimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184580454541836684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-58057594106248352282008-10-27T16:25:00.000-05:002008-10-27T16:25:00.000-05:00Heh, no worries: Schmuke seems to have forgotten a...Heh, no worries: Schmuke seems to have forgotten about me. Or he doesn't have enough time to respond to me. Or he just likes Maragon better.<BR/><BR/>I'm actually relieved... I don't know how much more my desk (and skull) could have taken.Quasarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04219765882891909223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-47529190928184177892008-10-27T15:22:00.000-05:002008-10-27T15:22:00.000-05:00Quasar,Well, at some point I told Sye I would not ...Quasar,<BR/><BR/>Well, at some point I told Sye I would not continue because he was being dishonest (different words, but this is what it resolves to), and I actually stopped. Then I have given a few points here and there, mostly to others discussing with Sye, a few intents of conversations with Sye, then answered scmike a few times, but he was quick to withdraw. Seems like he has trained the Sye-shit ever since.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, it requires strength because sometimes it seems like you can show them something. But it is futile.<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-7244099888512800082008-10-27T14:54:00.000-05:002008-10-27T14:54:00.000-05:00I see no evidence for this whatsoever. Can you exp...<I>I see no evidence for this whatsoever. Can you explain how you've reached this conclusion?</I><BR/><BR/>Of course! God told him! :-) ;-)<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-64108982928764031102008-10-27T14:43:00.000-05:002008-10-27T14:43:00.000-05:00MFT,Mike is really good at exposing absurd worldvi...MFT,<BR/><BR/><I>Mike is really good at exposing absurd worldviews</I><BR/><BR/>His own of course.<BR/><BR/>I truly do not understand why so few Christians can see through this construct. So far only a couple of Christians around notice. So, MFT, How is it that you do not notice the construct as dishonest and a pile of trickery? I am serious.<BR/><BR/>G.E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com