tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post3905021240939959794..comments2023-10-29T08:19:51.395-05:00Comments on The Raytractors - Ray Comfort's Detractors: The Natural Realm Implies NaturalismMacGyver Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02307024564664964571noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-11737807302842037122008-07-31T16:58:00.000-05:002008-07-31T16:58:00.000-05:00@ John Doyle:I do not agree. Certain situations ca...@ John Doyle:<BR/><BR/><I>I do not agree. Certain situations cause the release of certain chemicals in the brain. The resulting feelings can become addictive.<BR/><BR/>The mind is the brain. There is no independence. Take away the brain and the mind goes with it.</I><BR/><BR/>But the situations don't <I>touch</I> the brain. They don't do anything to the brain like a chemical does. It's the <I>idea</I>. What chemical makes up the idea of gambling? We know what is <I>associated</I> with it, but the idea is not material. It's not doing anything to the brain, but the mind.<BR/><BR/>People think in words, sounds, and images. How do chemicals make that up? We know what chemicals are <I>associated</I> with them, but that's it.<BR/><BR/>The brain and the mind, though extremely dependent on each other, can't be one in the same.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>But that makes God very small with respect to the Universe. Our little planet is an insignificant little speck of dust in the Universe. Why is the Master of the Universe so hung up on a rather fragile carbon-based lifeform with a short lifespan? Why does he want us to worship him? That is the bit I don't get. According to some Christians, we are put on Earth as a sort of training ground for an eternity spent praising God.</I><BR/><BR/>If Prince Charming wants to spend his life with Cinderella, does that make the Prince less of a Prince, or does it make Cinderella more of a Princess?<BR/><BR/>I don't think it makes God smaller. I think it makes us bigger.<BR/><BR/>Of all the cool things in the universe that God could hang out with, he chooses us.<BR/><BR/><BR/>As for earth being a training ground for eternity, I dunno about that. How would training here make a difference if we're going to be made perfect before that time?<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Let's for arguments sake say he exists. We die, we loved Jesus so we get a free pass, and we get into Heaven, where there is no more sin, sickness, etc. and everyone is like Ned Flanders. Then what? We stand around all day saying what a great guy God is for creating us? Just how long is that likely to go on for before someone goes and eats a peach and God gets really mad with us again?</I><BR/><BR/>Now now, every one knows that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is an apple tree... ;)<BR/><BR/>I doubt that every one there will be like Ned Flanders. I doubt that he and the apostle Paul would get along very well. Paul's too hard core.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if that will happen again. The Bible (as far as I know) seems to imply that it won't.Rob Pennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213274926132371888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-60042691786931784492008-07-31T16:14:00.000-05:002008-07-31T16:14:00.000-05:00@RobIt's not physically manipulating the brain, li...@Rob<BR/><I>It's not physically manipulating the brain, like drugs do, so what is it manipulating?<BR/><BR/>I believe that the brain and mind are separate, but not independent.</I><BR/><BR/>I do not agree. Certain situations cause the release of certain chemicals in the brain. The resulting feelings can become addictive. <BR/><BR/>The mind is the brain. There is no independence. Take away the brain and the mind goes with it.<BR/><BR/><I>Christianity assumes that Mankind is the center of God's universe.</I><BR/><BR/>But that makes God very small with respect to the Universe. Our little planet is an insignificant little speck of dust in the Universe. Why is the Master of the Universe so hung up on a rather fragile carbon-based lifeform with a short lifespan? Why does he want us to worship him? That is the bit I don't get. According to some Christians, we are put on Earth as a sort of training ground for an eternity spent praising God.<BR/><BR/>Let's for arguments sake say he exists. We die, we loved Jesus so we get a free pass, and we get into Heaven, where there is no more sin, sickness, etc. and everyone is like Ned Flanders. Then what? We stand around all day saying what a great guy God is for creating us? Just how long is that likely to go on for before someone goes and eats a peach and God gets really mad with us again?John Doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00451787184309404296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-78219025996357386562008-07-31T15:48:00.000-05:002008-07-31T15:48:00.000-05:00Excellent post Dave, really.I thoroughly enjoyed y...Excellent post Dave, really.<BR/><BR/>I thoroughly enjoyed your comparisons.Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-64622314986747757022008-07-31T15:38:00.000-05:002008-07-31T15:38:00.000-05:00Dave, this is good food for thought. I look forwa...Dave, this is good food for thought. I look forward to reading more posts by you.flinging dusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06164097777703823192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-41057364311407411542008-07-31T15:37:00.000-05:002008-07-31T15:37:00.000-05:00That's a lot of good points. I wonder what Ray wi...That's a lot of good points. I wonder what Ray will say.<BR/><BR/>Not gonna lie, I'd have to be rooting for Ray on that conversation. Not out of assurance, mind you. More out of hope that he'll stop and think for a second.<BR/><BR/><BR/>In the first point, the main assumption is not addressed at all; God's existence.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Naturalism does assume that we are nothing special, but Christianity doesn't just assume that we are special. It assumes that we are special <I>to God</I>, and therefore assumes that God exists. The Naturalism observes only the cosmos here, and therefore assumes that Earth and Man are not anything special <I>to the cosmos.</I> It doesn't really discount the Christian assumption at all.<BR/><BR/>Christianity assumes that Mankind is the center of <I>God's</I> universe.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The second and third points are all details about how the universe came to be. Though some Christians have that point of view, I think it's equally as reasonable to say "Look, the Genesis creation story has the same writing style as an ancient Hebrew Poem..."<BR/><BR/><BR/>In the fourth point, I'd say I halfway agree. The mind and Body are connected. We know that because, if we whack some one in the head with a hammer, their mind begins to function differently.<BR/><BR/>Take, for instance, a person who has a psychological addiction. It's not like substance abuse; it's something like Gambling. The poker table doesn't touch their brain. However, the stuff changes their brain chemistry in long-term ways.<BR/><BR/>The mind can change the brain in the same way that the brain can change the mind. Gambling isn't even a thing that is physical in nature, like food or sex. It's not physically manipulating the brain, like drugs do, so what is it manipulating?<BR/><BR/>I believe that the brain and mind are separate, but not independent.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The fifth point is all about free will. I suppose you've had that conversation many many many times, so I won't bore you with a re-hashing unless you want to talk about that. ^_^<BR/><BR/><BR/>As for the gospel message, I do not believe that it's lack of spreading to some areas does not disprove God's existence, nor the importance of that message.<BR/><BR/>I believe that God is the kind of guy who takes risks. Not a traditional view, but there it is any way. It's a major part of open theism.<BR/><BR/>Any way, I believe that God took a huge risk in trusting us with this important message, and the only reason that there are people who haven't heard it is because there are Christians who haven't been faithful.<BR/><BR/>I will admit, however, that there is no basis to that belief other than my assumptions concerning God and Spiritual matters.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The last point about how cars, buildings, paintings, etc. all have finite creators is pretty good. Not gonna lie.<BR/><BR/>However, if we change the focus from the finite or infinite nature of the thing to a comparison between the intelligence and complexity of the creation and the creator, then the painting/painter model has a little more ground to stand on.<BR/><BR/>As for <I>what method</I> the creator used to bring everything into being, whether by untraceable supernatural means or by a big bang and evolution, I'm not sure that such a detail is really important in the long run as much more than mind candy.Rob Pennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213274926132371888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-25531902441334781672008-07-31T13:27:00.000-05:002008-07-31T13:27:00.000-05:00Rufus, you're right. We love sin so much we are bl...Rufus, you're right. We love sin so much we are blinded to the grace of the lard your Gawd.<BR/><BR/>John,<BR/>What are your views on same sex marriage?Ranting Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06541805336028897480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-28773603940790317482008-07-31T13:16:00.000-05:002008-07-31T13:16:00.000-05:00Yes, but what do you think about abortion?Yes, but what do you think about abortion?John Doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00451787184309404296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-42608026667063618312008-07-31T12:42:00.000-05:002008-07-31T12:42:00.000-05:00Ranting:We miss God because we love our sin and wa...Ranting:<BR/><BR/>We miss God because we love our sin and want to keep sinning. Where have you been?TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-88965435929771625172008-07-31T12:07:00.000-05:002008-07-31T12:07:00.000-05:00Sometimes I wonder, see, If a God exists...How wou...Sometimes I wonder, see, If a God exists...How would it be so hard to miss him?<BR/><BR/>Seriously.Ranting Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06541805336028897480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-84636361459086090252008-07-31T11:30:00.000-05:002008-07-31T11:30:00.000-05:00A very well written piece.I think if you were to k...A very well written piece.<BR/><BR/>I think if you were to keep an overall tally, the score would be much, much higher though. <BR/><BR/>Of course, it won't make a jot of difference to those who make the claims in the first place; some people just will not see reason.ExPatMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08666078524214384329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-28526525546520644252008-07-31T10:58:00.000-05:002008-07-31T10:58:00.000-05:00Just wanted to point out that the word "Universe" ...Just wanted to point out that the word "Universe" meaning "one word" or "spoken word" is a common creationist myth.<BR/><BR/>The word actually comes from the Latin word "unvorsum" meaning (in the original context) "everything rolled into one, everything combined into one".<BR/><BR/>Even the dictionaries state that it derives from the combination of words "to turn" and "into one".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636485010689066731noreply@blogger.com