tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post2183432999666892050..comments2023-10-29T08:19:51.395-05:00Comments on The Raytractors - Ray Comfort's Detractors: Recommend One BookMacGyver Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02307024564664964571noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-9729769452268923142008-08-15T20:30:00.000-05:002008-08-15T20:30:00.000-05:00{{{I have a copy of Your Inner Fish (my mistake, I...{{{I have a copy of Your Inner Fish (my mistake, I wrote Our before); I'd be happy to let you read it.}}}<BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/>I don't have a lot of internet time this evening - or actually for a few days - but I will reply as I'm able.....<BR/><BR/>On this offer - it is very generous of you to make this offer. I asked Dh and he said he is fine with me sending you his work address. I will use your bog identity e-mail. I will also assure you that I will return the book. Dh wants me to go ahead and read it - he is confident that the Lord will use it in some way in the future. Things like that seem to happen with regularity and we have learned to go with it.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-39656047726467081462008-08-14T22:25:00.000-05:002008-08-14T22:25:00.000-05:00Patti:Well, I just think it's part of the Expelled...Patti:<BR/><BR/>Well, I just think it's part of the Expelled producers general dishonesty. Ken Miller is a Christian who doesn't deny evolution. Though he's a Catholic and I know Ray and others think that means he's not a "true" Christian. Having Ken Miller in a movie about how evolution is basically the same as atheism (and atheism is the same as Hitler), and about all of these so called persecuted scientists might have given people pause. I have a copy of Your Inner Fish (my mistake, I wrote Our before); I'd be happy to let you read it.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-63379681022738219462008-08-14T22:08:00.000-05:002008-08-14T22:08:00.000-05:00Rufus said... {{{Patti: After reading your post on...Rufus said... <BR/>{{{Patti: <BR/>After reading your post on Ray's latest thread about Titaalik, I have to add Our Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. It's just over two hundred pages. }}}<BR/><BR/>[REPLY]<BR/>I looked for that one and no library in my county had a copy - so it will have to wait.<BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/>{{{Kenneth Miller is one of those scientists that the producers of Expelled didn't want to interview because it would "confuse" things.}}}<BR/><BR/>So is that good or bad? This was one of the books listed by a Raytractor, and it was readily available - the only other one there was a bit more philosophical and this one laeaned to science, so that is why I chose it. <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-24564831675697300802008-08-14T21:28:00.000-05:002008-08-14T21:28:00.000-05:00Patti: After reading your post on Ray's latest thr...Patti: <BR/><BR/>After reading your post on Ray's latest thread about Titaalik, I have to add Our Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. It's just over two hundred pages. <BR/><BR/>Kenneth Miller is one of those scientists that the producers of Expelled didn't want to interview because it would "confuse" things.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-61499081875619715452008-08-14T21:19:00.000-05:002008-08-14T21:19:00.000-05:00Of the list of books, my library had 3. I checked ...Of the list of books, my library had 3. I checked out 2. I will read Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller. I also checked out Asimov's Guide to the Bible (Old and New Testaments). I will scan that - it also helped me start my research on slavery in Scripture. <BR/>So I begin..............<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Patti<BR/>(Oh, and I was really curious about the Zinn book The People's History - and plan to find a copy to look that over too.)fourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-25973902628943685492008-08-14T07:20:00.000-05:002008-08-14T07:20:00.000-05:00Okay, it is library day. I finished A Tale of Two ...Okay, it is library day. I finished A Tale of Two Cities - and am free to read one of your choices. Dh made his suggestions, and from there I wrote out a list of about 15 possibles and will see what our library has.<BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-52774012148281763382008-08-10T05:51:00.000-05:002008-08-10T05:51:00.000-05:00Since nonmagical thinking asked me to contribute t...Since nonmagical thinking asked me to contribute to this thread, I'll try. You guys have already recommended many of my favorites, so I'm unsure what else to add. One of the best ever sci-fi series in my opinion is Babylon 5. It turned me off when it was first aired, because the underlying themes become apparent only after several episodes. The storylines are so interwoven that you'll easily lose track by missing an episode. Now that I own the complete series on DVD, I just love it. Not all episodes are great, but the overall quality is very high.<BR/>Hmmm, books. I like reading new books all the time more than rereading, so I wouldn't know what to call an all-time favorite. I switch often between light entertainment (Warhammer fantasy) and serious philosophical stuff (I'm just beginning with this, currently reading Daniel Dennett). Fantasy literature: <A HREF="http://www.georgerrmartin.com/" REL="nofollow"> George R. R. Martin's </A> <I>Song of Ice and Fire</I> is superb. It's set in a world mostly modeled on real medieval times and places, with many historical parallels (especially British royal history), but contains various sparingly used fantasy element that become more prominent as the story proceeds. The 'trilogy' isn't complete yet, but there's a lot out already. I'll always love my personally signed <I>Hitchhiker's</I> of course, which I got when Douglas Adams visited my city. I highly recommend his <I>Last chance to see</I>, a relatively short and very amusing and touching book about the most curious animals that are in danger of extinction. What else. I also like writer/cartoonist Walter Moers a lot. Most of his books are set in a fairy-tale-fantasy world which is often very Pratchettesque. The three books I've read so far are <I>Rumo</I>, <I>The City of Dreaming Books</I> and <I>Der Schrecksenmeister</I>. The first two are also available in English.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749925395851545703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-77645229798626187052008-08-09T14:48:00.000-05:002008-08-09T14:48:00.000-05:00NMT:I had never heard of The Shack (I was thinking...NMT:<BR/><BR/>I had never heard of The Shack (I was thinking a bio of Shaquille O'Neal). I still don't know much about it, but I can see that Christians are arguing about it. But at least it's not the good old days. they'd probably end up killing one another over it.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-28488780072335491772008-08-09T11:06:00.000-05:002008-08-09T11:06:00.000-05:00Patti,I'll put The Robe on the list, but it's goin...Patti,<BR/><BR/>I'll put The Robe on the list, but it's going to be awhile before I get to it.<BR/><BR/>I was so afraid you were going to suggest that Shack book. I'm so glad you didn't because I can not bring myself to read that.nonmagichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12986030395050670437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-75439902946190470252008-08-09T11:05:00.000-05:002008-08-09T11:05:00.000-05:00Rufus,I'm tackling ISOLT one book at a time. I'm ...Rufus,<BR/><BR/>I'm tackling ISOLT one book at a time. I'm reading a couple of books in between. It is a big commitment, but I'm so glad I started it because it's such a riveting story.<BR/><BR/>I'm so glad I'm not the only one who hasn't read Hitchhiker's! <BR/><BR/>I'll try some Monty when I get the chance.nonmagichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12986030395050670437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-51165978764018014012008-08-09T10:57:00.000-05:002008-08-09T10:57:00.000-05:00Rufus: Yeah, I recently watched Stargate: Continuu...Rufus: Yeah, I recently watched Stargate: Continuum, too. I think it was a fitting tribute to Stargate SG-1, as the movie went back over all the seasons.DisComforting Ignorancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04279112381253209661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-14282551241632426602008-08-09T10:39:00.000-05:002008-08-09T10:39:00.000-05:00RufusDo you belong to the Judean Peoples Front or ...Rufus<BR/><BR/>Do you belong to the Judean Peoples Front or the People's Front of Judea?<BR/><BR/><BR/>@all,<BR/><BR/>I recommended a People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn a while ago on Ray's. I stick with that. It gives a great well researched history of the trilas of various groups in the US from the non-'Great Man' perspective we are taught in school, without being pandering or preachy.<BR/>And it's free online!NaFahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04808384086444922461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-68920420825322030512008-08-09T07:59:00.000-05:002008-08-09T07:59:00.000-05:00{{{Concerning the suppression of reason trumps rea...{{{Concerning the suppression of reason trumps reason, I think the truest thing Martin Luther ever said/wrote was reason is the enemy of faith.}}}<BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/>[REPLY]<BR/>I can agree with him. But Luther was a very intelligent individual - and he used his reason regularly. He was trained as an intellectual, and that never left him. <BR/><BR/>But his reason/intellect fell short at the point of salvation. Your reason can bring you to the brink - but it is faith that must take you over. <BR/><BR/>In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, remember when he was at the brink of the huge chasm. He had to take the first step into the air in faith, but when he did there was a solid bridge under him to carry him across? <BR/><BR/>I am not Luther and can't be sure of his intent - but I can see that if you never take that first step in letting go of reason in order to have faith then that reason is indeed an enemy. But faith is only the first step, and reason does not have to be lost. <BR/><BR/>When I said I was going to do a study on slavery - I have to use intellect and reason. I will get out our huge concordance and the Greek/Hebrew expository book and I will start looking at all the verses and passages that deal with the topic. I will try to make some kind of organizational pattern for it. My faith comes in because I believe this is the Word of God and I know that He promised to make it clear to me - my reason is needed to dig in and study that Word. One does not work without the other. <BR/>Faith alone would never get the job of studying done (I know some Christians like that - they only accept what others tell them about the Word.) <BR/>Reason alone can never understand the living God of the Bible. Without a living relationship with Him, it is just words on a page.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-10326998169633016712008-08-09T07:38:00.000-05:002008-08-09T07:38:00.000-05:00[QUOTE]{{{There are times when the suppression of ...[QUOTE]<BR/>{{{There are times when the suppression of reason trumps reason? Really?}}}<BR/><BR/>[REPLY]<BR/>If I am understanding you - you are saying that:<BR/>faith = suppression of reason.<BR/>I would probably reply "yes" to that, with the caveat that this doesn't imply reason isn't there - only that I chose to not act on it at that time.<BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/>[QUOTE]<BR/>{{{How so? Can you present evidence that supports this assertion?}}}<BR/><BR/>[REPLY]<BR/>I'm not sure - but I can give you an example: <BR/>This thread asked to provide one book I would ask you to read in exchange for me reading one book that you all suggest (you are going to actually do that right? Becauses I intend to follow through - still discussing which book with Dh.) I can name a number of, what I would call, deep books - but since I had only one choice I felt it wisest to pray about which one to name. The only title that kept coming to mind was The Robe. It wasn't the most "reasonable" answer - but it was the one I felt led to say. I could obey that leading or not - I chose faith and went with The Robe.<BR/><BR/>You all make the reason of man as the highest acheivement. I say that there is a level that "trumps" that and is called faith in God. That does not mean that I can't use my reason and intellect - I should do so to it's highest potential, but I should not forget that faith may supercede that reason. I am finite: God is infinite. <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-84173422580662084392008-08-09T04:20:00.000-05:002008-08-09T04:20:00.000-05:00I remembered two novels that I think believers sho...I remembered two novels that I think believers should read:<BR/><BR/>Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal by Christopher Moore. It covers those "lost" years of Jesus' life. Very funny.<BR/><BR/>A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving. That book comes closer to making me a believer than the Bible and all the owrks of apologetics that I've read put together.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-39191620439859279912008-08-09T03:11:00.000-05:002008-08-09T03:11:00.000-05:00NMT: I haven't read The Hitchhiker's Guide either....NMT: <BR/><BR/>I haven't read The Hitchhiker's Guide either. I'm a fairly quick reader (though not as quick as I'd like, say like Charley after the operation in Flowers for Algernon), and I'm a steady reader, but of course, the list of books I haven't read is much longer than the list of books I have read.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-18265268908811912192008-08-09T03:03:00.000-05:002008-08-09T03:03:00.000-05:00NMT: Never seen Monty Python? Nothing? You've neve...NMT: Never seen Monty Python? Nothing? You've never seen The Life of Brian? Rent/buy it; watch it; pee yourself laughing. Go and sin no more.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-84148742957206938572008-08-09T03:01:00.000-05:002008-08-09T03:01:00.000-05:00Nonmagical:I've wanted to start In Search of Lost ...Nonmagical:<BR/><BR/>I've wanted to start In Search of Lost Time, but I can't bring myself to make the commitment. I'm probably still trying get over having finished Ulysses a few years ago. I ended up liking it, and I'm glad I read it, but it was a slog. And now you have me thinking about rereading Walden, and throwing some Emerson in there as well.<BR/><BR/>Concerning the suppression of reason trumps reason, I think the truest thing Martin Luther ever said/wrote was reason is the enemy of faith.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-10170736278529764522008-08-09T02:55:00.000-05:002008-08-09T02:55:00.000-05:00I just watched the Stargate: Continuum movie. It w...I just watched the Stargate: Continuum movie. It was okay, but not a favorite.TJHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570384567898770658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-87623971236565847182008-08-09T00:48:00.000-05:002008-08-09T00:48:00.000-05:00Patti! "Well, have you watched any Stargate, SG1? ...Patti! <BR/><BR/>"Well, have you watched any Stargate, SG1? - that would provide some redemption. "<BR/><BR/>I am actually between episodes <I>right now</I>. I'm rewatching the entire season again and am about to watch the season finale of the second season.<BR/><BR/>NMT has not watched Stargate SG-1? I'll have to make a post on it, huzzah. Every critical thinker (especially skeptics, atheists, and scientists) should watch Stargate SG-1.DisComforting Ignorancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04279112381253209661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-51780728850150271542008-08-08T23:44:00.000-05:002008-08-08T23:44:00.000-05:00I just wanted to once again commend Patti for bein...I just wanted to once again commend Patti for being the only theist to actively participate in our discussions.Maragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12231231272552028973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-57331501336065377832008-08-08T23:30:00.000-05:002008-08-08T23:30:00.000-05:00Patti sez:Not exactly. It isn't that one fails to ...Patti sez:<BR/><BR/><I>Not exactly. It isn't that one fails to think critically, but that there are times when faith trumps reason. </I><BR/><BR/>There are times when the suppression of reason trumps reason? Really?<BR/><BR/>How so? Can you present evidence that supports this assertion?TripMaster Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780570912044493356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-51743618387778908782008-08-08T22:58:00.000-05:002008-08-08T22:58:00.000-05:00Patti,I've never seen Monty Python either.:::ducks...Patti,<BR/><BR/>I've never seen Monty Python either.<BR/><BR/>:::ducks from all the rotten tomatoes being thrown at her:::<BR/><BR/>I grew up watching nothing but nature shows, science stuff, Donahue and 60 minutes. As an adult I started watching movies, and I watch House, but that's it.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to out myself even further. I've never seen Survivor or Lost or any of whatever is popular right now or has been popular in probably the past 15 years. I only saw Friends after it went off the air and only because my husband watched it. I've never seen Jaws, Star Wars or....whatever those movies were that had the aliens in them.<BR/><BR/><BR/>____________________<BR/><BR/>Charles, well, I'm going to try to read it before the end of the year. Try. I've got a lot of stuff lined up in front of it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>If I had to recommend something that had nothing to do with religion or science I would recommend Walden by Thoreau and In Search of Lost Time by Proust.<BR/><BR/>I've only gotten through the first volume of In Search of Lost Time (Swann's Way), but it was really, really good. After I finish the book I am on now I'm going to read Varieties of Scientific Experience by Sagan and then I'm going to start volume 2 of In Search of Lost Time (Within A Budding Grove).<BR/><BR/>Only thing is, classes start in a few weeks so I'm going to be very limited as to the time I get to spend reading for pleasure.nonmagichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12986030395050670437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-36315220704955131532008-08-08T22:13:00.000-05:002008-08-08T22:13:00.000-05:00NMT said: "I am going to publicly admit something,...NMT said: <I>"I am going to publicly admit something, even though I may be shamed for doing so:<BR/><BR/>I have not read Hitchhiker's."</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, I just recently reread the <I>Hitchhiker's Guide</I>, and you know what? It's really not that good. So be not ashamed. It may have been funny to me and even kinda profound sorta back when I was in college in the *cough* 1980's, but not so much now.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, maryanne and anyone who still loves Vogon poetry.<BR/><BR/>If I were to pick a book (and Maragon picked the one I thought of first) it would be a speculative fiction anthology from the late 1960's titled <I>Again, Dangerous Visions</I>. It's huge and a fair number of the stories in there are not worth the time, but some of the other stuff is mind-bendingly good. Shows what SF could have been before Star Wars came along and ruined everything.<BR/><BR/>I especially recommend the story "Time Travel for Pedestrians." Amazing stuff.Char'Elshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08257999516820029452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4140917903722388348.post-66003365416979255332008-08-08T22:11:00.000-05:002008-08-08T22:11:00.000-05:00{{...My husband loves Stargate, but I've never see...{{...My husband loves Stargate, but I've never seen a single episode. I'm always reading while he's watching. I asked him what was so great about it and he said 'I know you. You'd hate it'.<BR/><BR/>What am I missing?}}}<BR/>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR/>Son #3 got us started. We only watch it on DVD (no TV here) so we get all the "extras". We have fun as a family with the characters. So it probably isn't the show as much as it is how our family just takes the lines and situations and makes them our own entertainment. <BR/><BR/>Kind of like Monty Python - my kids just pick up lines and quote whole passages and next thing you know we are all doubled over laughing. <BR/><BR/>I did write earlier that we carry around towels from time to time and spout off "42" when appropriate (that is from Hitchhiker). So we also point like Jack O'Neill (2 l's) and say things like "into the giant orifice" and "I'm the general and I say to make it spin" (those are lines from episode 200). <BR/><BR/>I am sure you are probably better off with your books!<BR/>Blessings,<BR/>Pattifourkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16396302386295985290noreply@blogger.com